Now that the U.S has hit 300 million...

[Lule]

...do you think there should ever be population control?

At how many?

What would be the standards?


Lule

[OniFactor]

i think we should do away with that whole 60+ geriatric range.

[Chiovnidca]

Get rid of the drug addicts, criminals, and dumbasses first.

[OniFactor]

why? they make life interesting. all the old people do, is eat out of everyone elses paychecks heavily, and 'cause traffic accidents in their american made boats.

[elisium]

why? they make life interesting. all the old people do, is eat out of everyone elses paychecks heavily, and 'cause traffic accidents in their american made boats.

hahahaha

[jimmyb34]

before we ever do something like that maybe they should worry about getting the people out of here who dont belong

[Sonny7730]

^^wait, people don't belond here? but i thought we could let anyone and everyone in, and let them do whatever they want. after all, our laws don't apply to those who aren't citizens, right?

[jimmyb34]

and thats probably my que to stay out of this thread lol.. i can get ignorant and ill choose to be nice lol

[k1dfreeze]

300 million is peewee in this league...my peeps are at 1,306,313,812 (July 2005 est.)...go china!!! lol

[CIVICRicerBoy]

300 million is peewee in this league...my peeps are at 1,306,313,812 (July 2005 est.)...go china!!! lol

Ghey.

Too many people live here.....

[dragman99]

it's all about the drinking water. it's time to sterlize.

[vtecencrx]

:TU:
it's all about the drinking water. it's time to sterlize.
:werd:
as far as water goes, no, but i think they should somehow control the birth rate, whether it be by sterilization or some other means, their are too many people having kids that do not need and or want them, because they dont practice birth control, and their are ways of keeping your
family name going before your sterilized ie. sperm bank

[k1dfreeze]

it's all about the drinking water. it's time to sterlize.

so by doing so, its going to be random who gets to, nor, shal i say who is able to have kids then? would it be unfair to make repoduction a lottery? example, you are an only child, male, with no immediate cousins, thus you are the last in your family...you must and want to continue the family name so must you have kids...but you drank the wrong water and now you are sterile...in your world, its ok, because theres already too many people here, so it doesnt matter who can or cant have kids as long as the number is upheld...

[dragman99]

so by doing so, its going to be random who gets to, nor, shal i say who is able to have kids then? would it be unfair to make repoduction a lottery? example, you are an only child, male, with no immediate cousins, thus you are the last in your family...you must and want to continue the family name so must you have kids...but you drank the wrong water and now you are sterile...in your world, its ok, because theres already too many people here, so it doesnt matter who can or cant have kids as long as the number is upheld...


is this a question?

[k1dfreeze]

no, its part of my dictoral speech...here it live on xm radio

[Steve-O]

as long as there is a functioning penis out there and a pair of open legs merging the way to a vagina that will accept it, there will always be population growth :sadface:

[OniFactor]

not if we remove the upper portion of the population at the rate of birth. :TU:

[dragman99]

as long as there is a functioning penis out there and a pair of open legs merging the way to a vagina that will accept it, there will always be population growth :sadface:


so what do you propose?:confused:

[Steve-O]

so what do you propose?:confused:anything i propose would be either

a) unconsittutional,
b) violate human rights,
c) against the law, or
d) all of the above

seriously tho, i don't think there is a way to control population growth other than remove warning labels and let nature take care of itself i guess

[dragman99]

anything i propose would be either

a) unconsittutional,
b) violate human rights,
c) against the law, or
d) all of the above

seriously tho, i don't think there is a way to control population growth other than remove warning labels and let nature take care of itself i guess


http://www.d-series.org/forums/image.php?u=296&dateline=1142443171

[dragman99]

no, its part of my dictoral speech...here it live on xm radio



what station?

[Bahamutzero1059]

i think the whores should stop randomly fucking...or alteast wear protection

you know how many ppl i know who got a chick preg and leaves her.
or even the chick cheats on the dude..and makes the dude think its his...then when he finds out all hell breaks loose.

and im talking like fuckin 19 year olds.
ppl need to stop wanting to play mom and dad at these ages ...get a fuckin dog or something.
the child is not like an animal...if you get sick of the child you cant just give it away...its not the same.

ppl need to start thinking things thru...
wrap you whacker befor you attack her...seriously!

and as for China
they are so populated cuz...asians are hot...what can i say.

[superdewey58]

we have enough room... lets go for 350!

[Lule]

I believe that there needs to be some balance between population and natural resources.

I would probably start by temporarily sterilizing those on government assistance: HUD, food, welfare in general. Hey, if you can't take care of yourself, you damn sure can't a child. This keeps the population down somewhat and saves taxpayers money.

If that wasn't enough, I'd then impose a rule that would say that the prospective parents would have to pass financial background check as well as scoring a minimum on an IQ test. Babies can't be fed on love and there are already too many stupid children being conceived.

We already selectively breed horses and tomatoes, why not people?

[flatfourfan]

Nature always has a way of balancing things out..................

Wait till the AIDS virus comes out with all guns blazing, it's going to the end of the road for most of the world, not just the US..........

[Sonny7730]

^^very true. there are natural roadblocks that are probably going to start showing up.

but my solution: all kids that play in the street are fair game. hell, if you can't even watch your kids enough to keep them out of the street, you deserve to lose them. could you imagine the population control in just the first year with that?? hehe. and jimmy, i hope you know i was being sarcastic!!

[OniFactor]

I believe that there needs to be some balance between population and natural resources.

I would probably start by temporarily sterilizing those on government assistance: HUD, food, welfare in general. Hey, if you can't take care of yourself, you damn sure can't a child. This keeps the population down somewhat and saves taxpayers money.

so, since me and my fiance are full time students, and we get food stamps, because our federal aid and student loans don't provide enough money for food, and we can only work so many hours a week, since we still have homework, and a child to take care of, we should be 'temporarily' sterilized? and the fact that we are in subsidized housing, because 426 a month, heat and water included, is about the cheapest housing we could find, and we qualified for?

why do you want to penalize people who may or may NOT be part of the problem? i know plenty of families that support themselves, but have 6+ children. and i know people on government assistance, such as my own family, who definitely aren't contributing to overpopulating the world. it's discriminant, to say poor people can't reproduce.

[lowcrx]

as long as there is a functioning penis out there and a pair of open legs merging the way to a vagina that will accept it, there will always be population growth :sadface:

i agree with you... and well put!!!!lol

[Richie_A_19]

i agree with oni, people that are trying to help themselves and still need the help of the government should not be penalized. i too am on federal assistance because of my daughter but my husband and i work our asses off. so we contribute.

sterilization is not the answer. we need to get better values in our society. people are no longer embarassed of the things they do. which is the biggest problem in our society. i am a feminist but i dont think girls should be walking around having sex without the appropriate protection. come on people what happened to modesty!

michelle

[OniFactor]

yay! richies better half agrees with me!

but i wonder if she agrees about the euthanasia of the geriatric community..

[Toddnos]

im crazy....so i dont have any kids...i make that decision on my own...to bad more people cant do the same.

[OniFactor]

im crazy....so i dont get to have any kids...


fixed for ya.

[Toddnos]

na...i choose....ever hear of abortions?

[OniFactor]

tu es muy loco en la cabeza, homie.

[Toddnos]

i kill babies....

[Toddnos]

im sayin, in my life im glad i dont have any kids....for whatever reason, life has delt this to me and i think its best for me...im a little crazy, and if i woulda had kids with the chicks i got pregnant life would be fawked up for me....true kids are wonderful, but just not for me...and i dont necessarily like abortion either, but its what happened, so be it. Thats my contribution to population control11111

[Richie_A_19]

yay! richies better half agrees with me!

but i wonder if she agrees about the euthanasia of the geriatric community..

the geriatric community should have no rights. :)

michelle

[Toddnos]

we are all gonna be old someday....you will regret hating on the old folks....

[OniFactor]

we are all gonna be old someday....you will regret hating on the old folks....

i will not be joining the ranks of old people, for sure. either, i'm gonna cryogenically freeze myself, on my 60th, or i'm just gonna jump. lol

[Toddnos]

^ i always picture myself driving a red corvette into a brick wall......

[Richie_A_19]

no these people are old in a way the makes them morons. that i will not be. i will always drive fast and be smart.

[Toddnos]

i think its the lack of motor skills that comes along with being old....just makes em seem retarded...we are all gonna get retarded eventually...

[achilles1981]

what about the handicapped? If you think about it, they are as much of a drain on the system and their families as the geriatric.

[OniFactor]

what about the handicapped? If you think about it, they are as much of a drain on the system and their families as the geriatric.

never said it was because the geriatric were a drain on society. just that they've lived past their useful lives. how many times do you see a wicked old person, stocking the shelves at some store, while there are younger people, who need the work more, jobless, starving? if we seriously do away with 60+ think about the benefits. for one, there's the jobs it'll open, two, we won't need any elderly assisted living communities, three, we won't have to pay cash into retirement funds, four, we won't have as many accidents... should i keep going?

[dragman99]

never said it was because the geriatric were a drain on society. just that they've lived past their useful lives. how many times do you see a wicked old person, stocking the shelves at some store, while there are younger people, who need the work more, jobless, starving? if we seriously do away with 60+ think about the benefits. for one, there's the jobs it'll open, two, we won't need any elderly assisted living communities, three, we won't have to pay cash into retirement funds, four, we won't have as many accidents... should i keep going?


kind of unrealistic don't you think?

[Toddnos]

eat the old people....*solves world hunger with a keystroke*

[OniFactor]

anything is unrealistic.

[necro]

I guess when your young u can pick on the elderly. I've seen several 60+ ppl moving around like 30-40 something ppl. And i've seen 20+ y/o ppl moving around like 60+ppl.

Who has the right or power to decide whose life span is up? If where over populated then deal w/ it. If not leave.

Some ppl have a vivid imagination. Why sterilize ppl for what ever reason? What makes ppl w/ $$ so much better at raising kids then middle class or poor ppl? If ppl here feel so strongly about it then get sterilize atleast your doing your part.

[jimmyb34]

I believe that there needs to be some balance between population and natural resources.

I would probably start by temporarily sterilizing those on government assistance: HUD, food, welfare in general. Hey, if you can't take care of yourself, you damn sure can't a child. This keeps the population down somewhat and saves taxpayers money.

If that wasn't enough, I'd then impose a rule that would say that the prospective parents would have to pass financial background check as well as scoring a minimum on an IQ test. Babies can be fed on love and there are already too many stupid children being conceived.

We already selectively breed horses and tomatoes, why not people?

i think it was you also who said somethign about young people ahving kids is bad blah blah
i was 20 when my daughter was born.. i GUARANTEE me and my fiance are better parents than half the fucking losers out there.. and also we were on hud when she was pregnant and a little bit throughout the 1st year or so of my daughters life.. chose to get off of it because there are other people who could use it more than us.....
ANYTHING you jackasses come up with is unrealistic so to say... and "sterilizing" people lol i dont even know what to say to that really.....

[Toddnos]

i think it was you also who said somethign about young people ahving kids is bad blah blah
i was 20 when my daughter was born.. i GUARANTEE me and my fiance are better parents than half the fucking losers out there.. and also we were on hud when she was pregnant and a little bit throughout the 1st year or so of my daughters life.. chose to get off of it because there are other people who could use it more than us.....
ANYTHING you jackasses come up with is unrealistic so to say... and "sterilizing" people lol i dont even know what to say to that really.....
jimmy your right, but its too bad most people arent like that.....most people will leech the system till its dry........

[Chiovnidca]

eat the old people....*solves world hunger with a keystroke*
Mmmmmmm, Soylent Green



Who has the right or power to decide whose life span is up?
Do it like in Logans Run. Send em to Carrousel when they reach a certain age.

[Hellhatch]

I think we Should be more concetrated on getting out the people that dont belong here legally and all the fucken dead beat jackasses who are more than capable of working but choose to milk the system dry cause there lazy asshats.

[Toddnos]

lazy asshats.
I saw them at the house of blues

[Steve-O]

we are all gonna be old someday....you will regret hating on the old folks....:werd:

i pretty much watched my grandfather wither away and i would never want to see him killed because he was old. up until he got sick from diabetes, he drove did yardwork, fixed cars, and did more than alot of people his age could or would do. until he couldn't speak, there was no way you were pulling the wool over that german's eyes. he was sharp, resourceful and independant.

the real key is education and accoutability but the problem with that is you can't educate the ignorant or the clueless. the coke heads having buzz sex don't think about the consequences while they're easing up inside each other time and time again. the sad fact is, once a child is physically born, there is nothing we can do. we can complain all we like and say how it shouldn't have happened and how horrible it is to have happened but once the first cries of that child are heard as it enters the world, all things being equal, add +1 to the population

[4drturboD]

I think we Should be more concetrated on getting out the people that dont belong here legally and all the fucken dead beat jackasses who are more than capable of working but choose to milk the system dry cause there lazy asshats.

that is dead on. people that aren't here legally need to leave. as well as people that take the taxes that i pay because they are too fuckin lazy to get a job. cut em the fuck off, either they will starve to death or they will get a job. then the people that really need that kind of help can get more of it. that would help the population and improve the quality of life in this country so much.

[Misfit]

the baby boomers are gonna start dying soon, give it about 30 years and we'll be rid of all these old farts driving 78' caddys around that get 8 mpg. the road ways will go faster, gas prices will go down cause of gas comsumption, and ill stop cussing all the time at work. <--- im a manager at a pharmacy

lol

[cory jordan]

that is dead on. people that aren't here legally need to leave. as well as people that take the taxes that i pay because they are too fuckin lazy to get a job. cut em the fuck off, either they will starve to death or they will get a job. then the people that really need that kind of help can get more of it. that would help the population and improve the quality of life in this country so much.


one time i saw a bumper sticker that i would like to share with you all, it read "keep working, millions on welfare depend on you". it goes along with the indians that come into my work. sporting their hummer h3's and h2's on 28's reading across the windsheild "res-made"now im indian. and i feel sorry for what happen to thoes people. but if black people and jews dont get anything. then why are these fucking indians getting my fucking tax money to have kids., with that said. i dont agree with aliens of any sort being in this country sucking us dry while we as a nation are trying to figure out whats best for our citizens. i think its ludacris to be on welfare if you are an able bodied person, i know its wrong but if you have to many kids. let them go. whats best for them. struggle in the hood and let them grow up to be gang bangers and drug dealers., or give them the chance to be adopted out and have a fair chance like all of us. we all make our own choices. but it seems like sometimes people shouldnt get to make their own choices. no way a single mom in harlem should have 4 kids. its her fault . and she's doing nothing to help anyone. not her kids. and not me by making inflation because she doesnt wanna work, hell no she wont work if the goverment will pay her to sit at home and take that money to get a weave and her nails done. this whole system is fucked. and things need to be done, but as america. we are too scared to put our name in the dirt to really fix whats going on,. (jmo)
oh ok. now on the the original quote. like back in the depression.. in the texile factories. people wouldnt work for what companies were wanting to pay. so they had no job. but for thoes who had to make it. they worked and the positions got filled. i know mexican illegals go hand in hand with field workers. but they dont belong here and they do not have any right to take that job from american citizens. not on any free work program. untill we solve americas unemployment problem. we should not offer work to anyone outside the united states. ... thank you for your time. all things like major corportions should be goverment regulated and there should be a medium for price and employee count. if you employ american citizens. cost should be regulated. as well as income. these fucking oil companies are making 10 billion dollars are year in profit and telling us that our reserves are low and that we need to cut back. fucking money hungry pricks. money rules the world. and its sad. i think it was said some time that only like 10 percent control americas wealth. ok im done. im not sure what i have said. but im upset. and ill let this go. i didnt mean to offend any one. only state my point. if you would like to take me up on anything i've said. holla.

[MiloReaper87]

One stop makin Viagra (HMM i gotta try that shit see what happens!!!)
2 theres always ppl trying kill each other (that rite there is population control)
and 3 were all gonna fuk and make babies one way or another so cant help u there

[cory jordan]

One stop makin Viagra (HMM i gotta try that shit see what happens!!!)
2 theres always ppl trying kill each other (that rite there is population control)
and 3 were all gonna fuk and make babies one way or another so cant help u there

lol old people dont make babies.
population control in its finest, survival of the fitest (see darwin)
i think that babies should be taken away if they cant be cared for. like an ultra cps. because thoes babies are gonna grow up and be us next. and further this country. fuck if they dont get pointed in the right direction. how is it gonna be in 30 years.?

[MiloReaper87]

HAHAHA i mean overall on that statement AWWW good shit!!!

[cory jordan]

haha sorry i get defensive and critical when i ddrink and argue

[Lule]

I said young people having babies is bad? Show me.

Expecting everyone to be responsible, especially when it come to sex, is irrational and most definitely a pipe dream.

Respectfully Oni, yes I believe that any one of breeding age that is on government assistance should be temporarily sterilized. I would have no problem seeing tax money used for such. Why are you so worried? Having another?

There are third and fourth generation welfare recipients. Who said that welfare is a career? No baby making on my dime, thank you. This should be Give-and-take. Want government money? Fine. What do I get in return?

Cory has it right. We have effectively shut down evolution. Think about this the next time you encounter an idiot.

Soylent Green and Logans Run. Terrible movies but still fun to watch. I like the older sci-fi flicks predicting what the future would be like. They never saw computers coming...Except maybe for the video game in Soylent Green.

[necro]

Expecting everyone to be responsible, especially when it come to sex, is irrational and most definitely a pipe dream.

Why do u care about how many ppl are living in this country?

And how does this country keeps track on how many ILLEGAL ppl are in this country if they dont have a social security, etc?

I do agree that its out of control w/ welfare, but sterilizing ppl is a stupid idea. Are most of u guys drunk that come up w/ these ideas lol. More fucking $$ is coming out of your check if they sterilize ppl. Wouldnt it be a better idea to cut a fraction of the welfare off. That way your saving a lil bit of $$ since that might be your issue w/ welfare.

Give it time soon there wont be a middle class. So if your worried now wait a few years an you'll see lol. Look at Cory's post he mention Harlem. I dont know when was the last time he was there, but there are not many poor ppl in harlem compared to a few years ago. White ppl are moving back to harlem.

[cory jordan]

it was just a refrence for the hood. compton, harlem , dont play dumb you know there are slums with people in the mentioned situation look at new orleans, yeah. people just are chomping at the bit to live there, where the poverty is, im just saying. make your choices according to your situation, thats all

[necro]

it was just a refrence for the hood. compton, harlem , dont play dumb you know there are slums with people in the mentioned situation look at new orleans, yeah. where the poverty is, im just saying. make your choices according to your situation, thats all

Whats the point of u replying to me?

Big deal i mention your name in my post. Lol and i'm not playing dumb lol, but its funny that u pick harlem. I'm proving a point and relax i'm not gonna bully u.

[dragman99]

Why do u care about how many ppl are living in this country?

And how does this country keeps track on how many ILLEGAL ppl are in this country if they dont have a social security, etc?

I do agree that its out of control w/ welfare, but sterilizing ppl is a stupid idea. Are most of u guys drunk that come up w/ these ideas lol. More fucking $$ is coming out of your check if they sterilize ppl. Wouldnt it be a better idea to cut a fraction of the welfare off. That way your saving a lil bit of $$ since that might be your issue w/ welfare.

Give it time soon there wont be a middle class. So if your worried now wait a few years an you'll see lol. Look at Cory's post he mention Harlem. I dont know when was the last time he was there, but there are not many poor ppl in harlem compared to a few years ago. White ppl are moving back to harlem.


most of the time i'm drunk.

http://www.populationconnection.org/

[necro]

most of the time i'm drunk.

http://www.populationconnection.org/

Sober up b/c if thats the case carpooling might be an option lol.

[Richie_A_19]

lule, do you have children? apperently not. they are expensive. even if both parents work it is almost impossible to afford everything a child needs the first year of there life. sorry but my daughter needs medical care and i dont have a job that can provide that for her so the government is taking care of it. she deseerves the life that i had. when you have a child you'll understand. i work and i contribute to the system in which i am asking for help. you should stop attacking those who are trying to help themselves and attack those who get food stamps renewed every six monthes and refuse to get a job. think before you attack me and oni.

michelle

[Toddnos]

^ u should start your own profile michelle

[dragman99]

i pwn michelle > 3

[OniFactor]

I said young people having babies is bad? Show me.
never said you did. and i'm not exactly young. me and my fiance are both around 22. that's not really young, for students. we're considered non-traditional students, because of our age, and our child.
Expecting everyone to be responsible, especially when it come to sex, is irrational and most definitely a pipe dream.
you ever heard of Planned Parenthood? they will GIVE you condoms, the pill, ortho evra, all sorts of birth control, for FREE. if people are willingly ignorant of services of the sort, that benefit them, so be it.
Respectfully Oni, yes I believe that any one of breeding age that is on government assistance should be temporarily sterilized. I would have no problem seeing tax money used for such. Why are you so worried? Having another?
Nope. not planning to for a while. but if that was the case, i guess we better do away with organizations such as WIC, and Planned Parenthood, and ChildHealth Plus (might be an NY thing) and Medicaid for children, if that's the way you think it should be. i don't know if you know this, but a LOT of stuff in your life, whether you know it or not, is government funded, or based.

There are third and fourth generation welfare recipients. Who said that welfare is a career? No baby making on my dime, thank you. This should be Give-and-take. Want government money? Fine. What do I get in return?
depending on the type of welfare, it's kind of hard to be on it, for generations. most require some form of disability, or inability to work for a government ruled reason. what about unemployment? technically that is a form of welfare, and you can only recieve so much, for 1 year.

Cory has it right. We have effectively shut down evolution. Think about this the next time you encounter an idiot.
hate to break it to you, but we will do this eventually. after a population hits a certain point, it's only downhill from there.

Soylent Green and Logans Run. Terrible movies but still fun to watch. I like the older sci-fi flicks predicting what the future would be like. They never saw computers coming...Except maybe for the video game in Soylent Green.

ahh, the books had the future so much closer...

[Lule]

I have two, actually. College looms.

I'm intimately aware of the cost of raising a child.

Hey, if you had to use social services because of rough times, so be it. Things happen.

What bothers me are people impregnating/having children while entrenched in the social service system. I don't believe there's a provision in the constitution that gives people the right to have the government and ultimately, taxpayers, cover their lack of planning and responsibility.

Necro, I agree that illegal immigration is part of the problem, however, that really wasn't to be the scope of this debate. Since my idea was so STUPID, maybe you could enlighten me as to why it would be more expensive to curb pregnancy by sterilization. As for paying taxes, it's part of every society in every country. I pay my share. Governments can't operate for free.

I refuse to accept problems with the same apathetic attitude that you display.
Why do I care? Because there are people like you who don't. It's ok, you can leave today's problems for your kids.

[dragman99]

i've got winning idea.

help support the population growth. have your illegal immigrant spayed or neutered.

[93civiccx]

I'm gonna have to agree with lule. My fiancee's cousin should be sterilized. She's be on welfare since she was 18. She's damn near 30 now and has 8 kids by like 6 different guys and can't keep a job. The bitch should be sterilized. I can barely get by, let alone pay for someone else to use my money when I could use it. I have nothing but respect for people like Oni who have to use a little assistance to get by. I've been there. My dad, when I was in highschool and living with him, had legal guardianship of my little sister. My mom still had custody. My dad and I worked, but it still wasn't enough to get by. So when my dad was gonna apply, my mom applied first and got help. She lied and said my sister lived with her and it worked because she still had custody. They came after my dad for child support, even though he had paperwork that showed his legal guardianship and they still tried to make him pay. They even came after me to assist in paying child support for my sister to my mom. I was 16. It's a crooked world. And don't get me started on all my experience working in convience stores and seeing the foodstamp people get fountain drinks and driving new cadillacs.

[4drturboD]

I'm gonna have to agree with lule. My fiancee's cousin should be sterilized. She's be on welfare since she was 18. She's damn near 30 now and has 8 kids by like 6 different guys and can't keep a job. The bitch should be sterilized. I can barely get by, let alone pay for someone else to use my money when I could use it. I have nothing but respect for people like Oni who have to use a little assistance to get by. I've been there. My dad, when I was in highschool and living with him, had legal guardianship of my little sister. My mom still had custody. My dad and I worked, but it still wasn't enough to get by. So when my dad was gonna apply, my mom applied first and got help. She lied and said my sister lived with her and it worked because she still had custody. They came after my dad for child support, even though he had paperwork that showed his legal guardianship and they still tried to make him pay. They even came after me to assist in paying child support for my sister to my mom. I was 16. It's a crooked world. And don't get me started on all my experience working in convience stores and seeing the foodstamp people get fountain drinks and driving new cadillacs.

everything you just said makes me incredibly angry. i agree with you, and no offence, but i'm sorry your mom is so fuckin greedy.

[Lule]

Norplant: Works for up to five years.

Cost as best as I could determine: Roughly $500.

Insertion and removal: $800-$1000.

This was a very popular idea during 1991-1993, just after the FDA approved the use of the contraceptive.

I don't believe there's anything similar for men in the U.S.

[necro]

Necro, I agree that illegal immigration is part of the problem, however, that really wasn't to be the scope of this debate. Since my idea was so STUPID, maybe you could enlighten me as to why it would be more expensive to curb pregnancy by sterilization. As for paying taxes, it's part of every society in every country. I pay my share. Governments can't operate for free.

I refuse to accept problems with the same apathetic attitude that you display.
Why do I care? Because there are people like you who don't. It's ok, you can leave today's problems for your kids.

If illegal's are part of the problem, then how do u know how many illegals are in our country? How are they counted for is basically what i'm asking u?

I do agree we have to pay taxes thats a given, but sterilizing will also raise our taxes. I feel thats not going to solve our problem. I dont like the idea of ppl using the system either, hell i'm also a taxpayer. My idea was to cut a fraction of the system instead of spending $$$ on sterilizing. But i guess your to worried about playing God that u didnt read that in my other post.

Now all of a sudden i dont care about this countries problems? I dont need to agree w/ your ideas to care about the issue's. My ideas is to elimante the welfare high spending. Yours is to add more spending for our children.

[Richie_A_19]

unfortuantely, you can't sterilize people because the constitution does have a amendment that you can't inhibite a persons persuit of happiness. sorry there is a rule. not to mention the constitution does support taxes too. so basically your screwed. lule, are your kids using financial aid to go to school? if they are how would you like if i said that i didnt want to support thier dream to go to school? that would be pretty mean huh? again i dont have a say in that. basically we're all forced to do things that we dont want too.

i go to welfare and the people that get all the help are those that are not white. we are told that we can work, go do it. they wont help us. its a slow process. especially when you have liberals allowed to make a socialist program in a capitalist system. doesnt make much sense to me but who cares we want to provide amnesty to people who committed a crime when they entered the country. you should be discussing that.

[necro]

I refuse to accept problems with the same apathetic attitude that you display.
Why do I care? Because there are people like you who don't. It's ok, you can leave today's problems for your kids.

For an example: u get a welfare couple sterizile. Neither of them has no ambition to work, but our tax dollars still puts a roof, food over their heads. How much does it cost to sterilize them while they sit their asses home. When the taxpayers work to support their families?

Instead of u cutting back on spending on them u spend more on them. I rather eliminate them from their comfortable lifestyle.

There are gov't programs where ppl who are on welfare, etc can go to school, work for their $$ that they receive. I have nothing against that.

[Richie_A_19]

For an example: u get a welfare couple sterizile. Neither of them has no ambition to work, but our tax dollars still puts a roof, food over their heads. How much does it cost to sterilize them while they sit their asses home. When the taxpayers work to support their families?

Instead of u cutting back on spending on them u spend more on them. I rather eliminate them from their comfortable lifestyle.

There are gov't programs where ppl who are on welfare, etc can go to school, work for their $$ that they receive. I have nothing against that.

:werd: To expand even further on that point, why not just take any assistance away after, say 2 years? Let them keep the medical card, so the kids stay healthy, but cash assistance and food stamps are gone after 2 years. Hell, lets be generous and let them stay on a WIC type program for milk and eggs and cheese till the kid is, say 15.


I think both lule and necro are trying to say the same thing, just going about it differently.

IMHO, there is nothing wrong with getting help when you need it. You hit a rough spot, use the programs available to you UNTIL YOU NO LONGER NEED IT. Once you are done, get off the programs. Thats the way any self respecting American does it. I hate going down there and sitting in a lobby for 3 hours admitting I can't take care of my family the way I want to.

Rich

[sohcnovtec]

As someone who aspires to practice polygamy one day I personally am against the idea of taking one man's reproductive "rights" away from him. The US is by no mean's over populated. The US only makes up like 4% of the total world population. You wanna see crowded come to Japan or China or even India.

[Lule]

I love that word, 'rights.'

I believe someones rights end where mine begin. It's the most basic problem with achieving Utopia.

The 'pursuit of happiness' covers being on welfare and cranking out children? I don't believe the Founding Fathers would agree, nor would most Americans.

My children's schooling will be paid for the same way I paid for mine: Some out-of-pocket, but mostly with a loan. I used Sallie Mae.

I don't think that Necro and I are on the same page...

Prenatal care alone is going to trump the cost of a Norplant program.

It's kind of like rust on your car. Do you take care of that little spot now at a low cost or do you let it spread and repair large sections at a much higher cost?

Playing God? Ever hear of fertility drugs? Capital punishment?

FYI: The Norplant idea from the early 1990's failed. It was to be administered the mothers who had committed child abuse or gave birth to a child while on drugs. The ACLU argued successfully, and I agree with this, that temporary sterilization was not going to stop drug abuse or child abuse. It just stops fertilization.

I'm not touching the white/non-white comment. I'm aware of the biases.

[Steve-O]

...IMHO, there is nothing wrong with getting help when you need it. You hit a rough spot, use the programs available to you UNTIL YOU NO LONGER NEED IT. Once you are done, get off the programs. Thats the way any self respecting American does it. I hate going down there and sitting in a lobby for 3 hours admitting I can't take care of my family the way I want to.

Richi had experience with the canadian welfare system firsthand.

when my daughter's mother and i split up, we both couldn't afford our own place due to financial means. she was on maternity leave and i was working for less than $10/hr. she moved into a very nice geared-to -income townhouse complex within 8 mins walking distance from my house (it's in a nice middle-class neighborhood). she refuses to go on welfare unless she absolutely has to (she only used it once in her like for 3 months because her daughter's father is a deadbeat and wouldn't work or pay bills but he verbally and mentally abused and manipulated her and wouldn't leave) but that was it. she had a job interview yeserday and has TWO jobs lined up. she is a hard worker and has very good work ethics. maternity leave is a RIGHT but here in canada it runs out after 1 year. hers runs out in january but she planned head and lined up a job starting the first week of nov which is proof that if people really want to do something, they can. she will live at geared income housing until she can get her own place but even when she was off on maternity leave, the housing board only takes into account your actual wage or salary. if you have debts, expenses, etc, they don't factor that in. ange did have to make alot of sacrifices and budgetting to make ends meet and i helped wherever i could. so when she gets a job and her wage goes up, her rent goes up. oh and utilities are NOT included in rent btw with geared income, she has to pay them herself as well

moving on...when i go to pick up my daughter, i see SEVERAL people outside at her building who don't work, sit around, yell at the kids all day, smoke pot on their front porch, etc. they have their doors and windows wide open in the winter (welfare obviously is paying their utils because any normal red-blooded human i know would shut the door as soon as they go out in winter) and the kids run rampant throughout the day, swearing, throwing things, bullying smaller children. think of the typical welfare scene and i've seen it there.

it upsets me really because i hate knowing my daughter is around that type of bullshit and ange's daughter is forced to associate with those kids lest she have no friends when she goes out to play. my feeling is how the fuck are there GENERATIONS on welfare?!?!?!? i'm sorry but if whole families are getting a free ride on the taxpayer train, just like a real train eventually they should either have to get off or start payin the bill.

don't sterilize people but rather FORCE them to fend for themselves if they choose not to pull their chair up to the responsibility table. life and society will deal with them nicely :TU:

just my $0.02. i have to go to work now or i'll be late

[necro]

Your right Lule, u and I are not on the same page. Utopia lol what i would call happiness u might called it unfair.

I'll ask this question again how do u count illegals?

I see your point about the rust, but material objects cant compare to human life. Does this country force women to take fertility drugs?? No. But your saying sterilizing ppl should not be an option. If they have a low income level then they have no other choice in the matter.

U dont live in a perfect world. Children will be abused or die. Life is not valued in this day an time.

[achilles1981]

then why not fix the income level? while it's cheaper for businesses to lay off people and outsource their jobs to mexico or india, it's more expensive for the rest of us because we are the ones who have to foot the bill for the poeple who want to work but no longer have a job due to corporate greed, while at the same time the utility and housing/credit monopolies take advantage of all of us, which is why the homeless that don't want to be homeless or the the people on welfare who don't want to be on welfare get there in the first place. if there was a federally mandated income level, those who want to work can work and not have to worry about whether or not they can pay their bills and the system can go away, those who wish to take what they haven't earned get nothing until they fix their lives. I'm not even going to bother going into the real reasons for inflation and other societal problems in this discussion.
And you can't really count illegals, but they can SWAG it.

[necro]

What is SWAG?

And income increase is a good idea, but highly doubt that'll fly.

[Steve-O]

bottom line is you cannot force sterilization on people. castration for child molesters and severe sex offenders, maybe. but taking away a human being's right to produce offsprings (it's in our nature to reproduce) is something that would meet with worldwide opposition and likely result in bitter debate and possibly violent confrontation.

this is like taking cough, cold and flu rememdies...you're simply treating and lessening the SYMPTONS while the ROOT of the problem is allowed to run it's course. we need to draw the bridge to the lazy man's land of milk and honey (welfare), thereby indirectly FORCING people to better themselves :TU:.

eventually people will come to the point that "hey, finding my dinner in dumpsters behind restaurants isn't how i want to spend the rest of my life" and make the change. and for those who don't, life will deal with them accordingly.

[achilles1981]

What is SWAG?

And income increase is a good idea, but highly doubt that'll fly.

SWAG = scientific wild ass guess

Unfortunately, it'll never happen as long as we have the capitalist society we all hold so dear. It's all about how high the company's profit margin can be while at the same time paying the workers the least they can get away with.

[Steve-O]

...It's all about how high the company's profit margin can be while at the same time paying the workers the least they can get away with.:werd: so very very true :sadface:

[Lule]

Low income= trying, no income= not trying.

Well, I figure this subject has been debated to near death. I have certainly have learned some things from this.

I want to thank those who weighed in, pro or con, as I found this to be an interesting thread.

I certainly hope there were no hard feelings that came from this discussion.

Thanks again for your time and comments.

Lule

[Steve-O]

Low income= trying, no income= not trying...that's so true.

i went from $20/hr down to $8/hr. as low as i felt and as much as it depressed me and forced some pretty uprooting changes in my life, i perservered and now i'm slowly starting to climb the income ladder again.

i look at some of the people who live in my ex's geared-to-income housing complex and they definintely aren't trying to actually EARN an income (or discipline their kids, make a better life for themselves, etc.)