ok people.

[civicdx91]

I have that car in my avatar and i put in a air/fuel guage. when I start it up? it goes rich like it should, but when it warms up, it gets more lean and not rich enough. it goes from very lean to rich. red to green. guage pic on attachment. I attached the feed from guage to ECU. So I am getting the correct reading.
This means it is running too lean. What can be the cause of this? Its not the cat, if it was that would most likely not effect the ratio. Is something clogged before it gets to the chamber? What can it be? 5 components, fuel intake line to filter, line to throttle body, throttle body,injectors or fuel pressure reg. What can this be? does anybody know? I got pretty much hesitation when i am driving and will not reach over 70 mph and it did before. used to reach 110 mph b4. Can anybody help???

[Dweezil]

All those guages do is give you a pretty light show.

[Black91CRXsi]

What you need is a wide band air fuel guage... I used to have an autometer gauge similar to yours and it did the same thing... back and forth...

[SillyImportRacer]

What you need is a wide band air fuel guage... I used to have an autometer gauge similar to yours and it did the same thing... back and forth...

& a wide band o2 sensor. The stock unit is just enough for the stock ECU do make adjustments for 'normal' driving. If you want to tune or just want to see what's really goin' on, you need a true wide band set up.

My EJ1 came with a APC air fuel guage. It was anoying. I took it out. I might still have it.

[lowcrx]

wide band is what i have and it work pretty good for me...

[CrazyConscious]

I had one of those back in the day, the light show went well with my neon lights...

[93reddelsol]

:bravo:I had one of those back in the day, the light show went well with my neon lights...

[pearl62]

Say again what the problems are? What did you do before and after these problems started?

The A/F gauge won't be the cause of any problems, and it sounds like it's showing about what would be expected - A/F ratio hovering around stoichiometric (14.7:1). When I hooked up an Autometer A/F gauge it did the exact same thing, with the stock ECU.

[civicdx91]

peoiple that what the meter is supposed to do go back and forth . Its reading the o2 only tho. If yo got any ideads on my probl;em, read my original message and vote please

[pearl62]

Why do you have a FPR in there, with no other mods? Have you checked what the fuel pressure is after installing it? If your problems started after installing the FPR, I would suspect that is the problem. With your mods (none), I would stick with the stock FPR.

Also, nice hose wraps all over the place... It looks like one is going to melt on the exhaust manifold...

[pearl62]

peoiple that what the meter is supposed to do go back and forth . Its reading the o2 only tho. If yo got any ideads on my probl;em, read my original message and vote please

It's reading the remaining O2 after combustion, so it is an indicator of how much fuel you getting relative to the efficiency of your combustion.

You still haven't described anything that would explain why you are having any problem at all.

Oh, and slow down and reread what you've typed before posting. It's painful to read your chicken scratch.

[firetech_96]

The meter that you are using registers voltage changes across a row of leds from 0.0 - 0.5 volts. This is what a narrow band (stock) O2 sensor looks like when it is functioning properly:

http://www.evotexas.com/closed1.gif

The stock narrow band O2 sensor is not linear in it's voltage readings, it only reads rich/lean. While in closed loop operation (O2 sensor's voltage being read by ECU) the voltage is constanly switching in order to maintain Stoich 14.7:1. This is exactly why you cannot tune using a narrow band O2.

[JaredKaragen]

peoiple that what the meter is supposed to do go back and forth . Its reading the o2 only tho. If yo got any ideads on my probl;em, read my original message and vote please

There isn't the option for "Nothing is wrong" so I didn't vote.

When you use a AFR guage... it gives you an "approximation"....

It won't give you an actual reading... only a clue... I.E. If your car is running .1 lean, it will show you LEAN, and if it's running .1 rich, it will show you RICH.... bouncing back and forth as the ECU changes the fuel maps on the go.

The ONLY wat to see if it is possibly running lean/rich....:

if your idling, and it is only in lean (not jumping around) then you are lean (but who knows how much), and if your rich, you need to be at WOT, consistantly. When I'm at WOT in my car, it will show me one notch into rich, and not jump around till I let off the gas....

but that's My car, and My ECU settings.... who knows with your setup.


If the guage is jumping from lean to rich, it is a GOOD thing. It means your o2 is working CORRECTLY; there is no way to make an actual definitave guess on what AFR it is really running at unless you get a wideband.

End of Story.

YEs, I may have a "lightshow" in my car, but under certain circumstancec, I can tell if I'm lean or rich..

the way I figured out what the guage reading would look like, is uploading lean and rich maps to my ostrich while i'm driving... and just watched the guage to see how it reacted...

exactly as stated.

:done:

[JaredKaragen]

ok... who voted?

FPR being out because there is a NARROWBAND on a GUAGE? c'mon... you should know better than that!

[civicdx91]

I am a mechanic and it is supposed to show all the way lean then all the way rich very fast pulsing like a few times per second. There is a problem.When I am warm, on the guage on my original question [page, it shows all te way red then to light green. All the way left around the circle then almost all the way to right to light green. Are you guys trained to be a mechanic im jw. I wanted to know if anybody had an idea what this component problem is before i waste money on replacing something that I did not need to. Help please think twice before repling. Thank you

[pearl62]

LOL!! Ok, Mr. 'trained as a mechanic' why are you asking us?

You still haven't answered what your fuel pressure is. Use your common sense. The only thing you've done to the engine is add an FPR (I looked in your profile). You think it might be running lean... What do you think will do that? A mis-adjusted FPR!! I hope your pistons melt into a puddle in the bottom of your oil pan.

Why do you even have a fuel pressure regulator in there?

BTW, I hope you never work on my car! With the pics of your engine bay that you posted, if I were you I wouldn't go around claiming I was a mechanic...

[pearl62]

Exactly how long have you been a mechanic, and where were you trained? Where do you work?

[modsHXcivi]

A/ F ratio gauge = 45 buck you should of set on fire .....


Wideband is the way to go

[CrazyConscious]

Alright, fuck off for coming in here saying you are a mechanic and questioning every reply you got. If you knew what you were talking about you would understand that your piece of shit e-bay special AF gauge does nothing and you should just throw it out your cars window. It doesnt give you a reading of anything important. We may not be "trained mechanics" but i am positive i know a thing or two about civics. Mine is turboed and runs amazingly. Get your shit together, figure out with your amazing mechanics degree whats going on. Then come back and tell us your stupid gauge is doing the same fucking thing it was doing before. :stfu:

[pearl62]

Well put, I guess I'm too polite...

[civicdx91]

I am sorry i offended anybody by what i said. I am just frustrated about this problem. pics on attechment.If you shoulsd need any more information please email mer jdmhatch91@sbcglobal.net ok.

[Dweezil]

Where's the option for "nothing wrong"? In all likely hood the O2 sensor is covered in crap and the guage is to touchy to accuratly measure the changes in time.

Edit:

Your running a DPFI, tuned for economy. You'll almost never be at a stochiometric ratio with that, it's tuned for economy to begin with. I woulden't be suprized to find out that it runs 15:1 from the factory. Seriously the only way your going to know what's going on is to get a wideband.

Try this:

AEM GAUGE TYPE UEGO CONTROLLER/GAUGE
24 Color-coded LED display lights provide immediate reference to engine’s air/fuel ratio (AFR) or Lambda (11.0:1 to 17.0:1)

Integrated three-digit display reveals AFR or Lambda in real time (10.0:1 to 18.5:1)

User-selectable 0-5v analog output included for use with data loggers and most programmable engine management systems

NEW! Switch between AFR or Lambda readout with a twist of a switch (included face plate change is required for proper readout)

NEW! Included black and silver bezels, black and white AFR gauge faces and black Lambda gauge face allow you to personalize the look of your gauge!

NEW! Quick-Connect system eases installation by allowing users to mount the gauge and sensor wiring separately

Ideal AFR monitoring tool for carbureted applications and engine dynamometers

Does not oscillate AFR like narrow band sensors

Serial data stream included for output of AFR (RS 232)

Accurate to 0.1 AFR

Bosch UEGO sensor included

List Price: $549.00
Our Price: $269.00

from Forward Motion (http://www.fm-motorsport.com)

[civicdx91]

I got a 50$ O2 sensor on it. It is not a faulty sensor or guage. The guage reads the same as when i metered it. There is something wrong with this car. IT IS A TBI!

[ddd4114]

I got a 50$ O2 sensor on it
yes, but it's a narrow-band o2 sensor, right?

[Dweezil]

It woulden't matter if you bought a new sensor from the dealer, it would read the same as the $20 Bosch from the parts store. There's a reason cars don't ahve guages anymore (at least ones that give you usefull information), you don't need it. If there were a problem the ECU would throw a code and your idiot light would come on. If the lights off everything is fine.

[CrazyConscious]

It woulden't matter if you bought a new sensor from the dealer, it would read the same as the $20 Bosch from the parts store. There's a reason cars don't ahve guages anymore (at least ones that give you usefull information), you don't need it. If there were a problem the ECU would throw a code and your idiot light would come on. If the lights off everything is fine.

Thank you...if only he would actually listen to someone...:cussing:

[slebidia]

This thread should be deleted and this user banned.

[Hellhatch]

I had one of those a/f gauges i ended up heaving it down the street and getting satisfaction of it breaking into a million pieces. I should of bought a wideband.

[JaredKaragen]

I got a 50$ O2 sensor on it. It is not a faulty sensor or guage. The guage reads the same as when i metered it. There is something wrong with this car. IT IS A TBI!

Ok, lemem try to still be nice be4 u get banend....

the STOCK o2 CAN NOT TELL YOU WHAT YOUR AFR IS.... It can ONLY tell the ECU if it is rich or lean... and that's a split second reading before it jumps back to the other end of the scale.

THERE IS NO WAY TO GET CORRECT AFR READINGS UNLESS IT IS A WIDEBAND o2.... THERE IS NO ARGUING THIS FACT. END OF STORY.

What you do need to do is go out and buy a wideband and see how it works... then you will understand how stupid you are being trying to make a judgement off your stock o2.

Now: It is possible [if you have more than 18 braincells, which I believe you don't fall in this category] to see if your too lean or too rich (Waaaaaay too lean or Waaaaaaay too rich) off your stock narrowband sensor: The needle won't move much at all... it stays up by rich, or down by lean [now here's the important part] UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES! One of which is if your ECU is in OPEN LOOP!


So please: don't ask us what's wrong with your fuel system... it's a problem with the person reading the guage: IT's not supposed to be readable by a human.... only a computer than can sample it's imput 200 times/sec.

:noway:

[CrazyConscious]

^good way to sum it up and still try to be nice^

[JaredKaragen]

^good way to sum it up and still try to be nice^

I thought so too :TU: :TU: x2

[civicdx91]

I drove the car with the vacuum hose disconnected from fuel pressure regulator and it still drove the same as before. I think that means that i need a new pressure regulator yes??

[Dweezil]

If the ECu isen't throwing any codes, it's fine. Just accept this already, your car is fine, you just have more info you need from a crappy guage that isen't worth anything.

[slebidia]

I drove the car with the vacuum hose disconnected from fuel pressure regulator and it still drove the same as before. I think that means that i need a new pressure regulator yes??

UR a MeKHAniK. U teLL US.

[OniFactor]

I drove the car with the vacuum hose disconnected from fuel pressure regulator and it still drove the same as before. I think that means that i need a new pressure regulator yes??

go end yourself.

[civicdx91]

ok, my cu only will set a code if it is electronic problem and there is not. If it is a mechanical problem it waill not set a code. Diagnostic Trouble Codes - 1991
Honda Civic
1 Primary Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) (Sensor 1).
2 Rear Heated Oxygen Sensor.
3 Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor (MAP).
4 Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP).
6 Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT Sensor).
7 Throttle Position Sensor.
8 Top Dead Center Position Sensor (TDC).
9 No. 1 Cylinder Position Sensor (CYP).
10 Intake Air Temperature (IAT) Sensor.
12 Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System.
13 Barometric Pressure (BARO) Sensor.
14 Idle Air Control (IAC) Valve.
15 Ignition Output Signal.
16 Fuel injector.
17 Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS).
20 Electric load detector.
30 A/T FI signal A.
31 A/T FI signal B.
41 Oxygen sensor heater.
43 Fuel supply system. (fuel pump)

PROCEDURE:
When the Check Engine warning light has been reported on, turn the ignition on, move the front passenger seat to the rear position and observe the LED on the front of the ECU. The LED indicates a system failure code by blinking frequency. The ECU LED can indicate any number of simultaneous component problems by blinking separate codes, one after another.

If output indicates CODE 4, 11, 15, 16 or exceeds 17, count the number of blinks again. If the indicator is in fact, blinking these codes, substitute a known-good ECU and recheck If the indication goes away, replace the original ECU.

ok notice these codes are only for an elecrtical problem.

My problem is hesitation whiler driving and i found this out. I drove the car with the vacuum hose disconnected from fuel pressure regulator and it still drove the same as before. I think that means that i need a new pressure regulator yes?? I am asking for a few more opinions on this and not that I am any better than other people since i am a mechanic but i have never had this problem before. Can anybody else give me some feedback?

original problem
I have that car in my avatar and i put in a air/fuel guage. when I start it up it goes rich like it should, but when it warms up, it gets more lean and not rich enough. it goes from very lean to rich. red to green. guage pic on attachment. I attached the feed from guage to ECU. So I am getting the correct reading. I also used a meter on the O2 and its working like irt should. Also the other mechanics i went to said this was a big impovement from my original O2 which was slow and didnt work asap.
This means it is running too lean. What can be the cause of this? Its not the cat, if it was that would most likely not effect the ratio. Is something clogged before it gets to the chamber? What can it be? 5 components, fuel intake line to filter, line to throttle body, throttle body,injectors or fuel pressure reg. What can this be? does anybody know? I got pretty much hesitation when i am driving and will not reach over 70 mph and it did before. used to reach 110 mph b4. Can anybody help??? Pic are on bottom with first thread starter.

[primercrxSi91]

my gauges likes to bounce around when i drive..shit when ever my little 10 hits it bounces

[slebidia]

I know the problem.










































Super AIDS.

[DOHCDX]

there is no problem.

that gauge and a narrowband o2 sensor will not provide you with ANY actual feedback on how the engine is functioning. PERIOD. IGNORE THAT GAUGE. better yet, remove it altogether and throw it in the trash.

you can ONLY tell if an engine is running lean or rich with a true wideband o2 sensor or by reading the spark plugs. PERIOD.

[JaredKaragen]

I have that car in my avatar and i put in a air/fuel guage. when I start it up it goes rich like it should, but when it warms up, it gets more lean and not rich enough. it goes from very lean to rich. red to green. guage pic on attachment.

Ok, now im getting pissed, I tried to be nice, and I never get pissed.. U DONE IT NOW!!!


SMACK!

Now listen up very carefully.

Your car probably doesn't flow enough fuel for you to notice the FPR being out.

Second: The description you just gave shows that:

IT'S RICH AT THE BEGINNING BECAUSE THE o2 IS COLD/ thus reading RICH.

once you warm up, it can start to SHOW LEAN; and since your car's normal low end AFR is around 13.4, THIS IS NORMAL... IT IS SUPPOSED TO READ LIKT THAT... THIS IS SENDING A SIGNAL THE ECU CAN UNDERSTAND, NOT A VISIBLE READING THAT YOU CAN DISTINGUISH.

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOUR AFR IS, GET A WIDEBAND.... YOUR SERIOUSLY STUPID, and NEED TO GET A FUCKING CLUE.

I tried to be nice, I tried to explain it, but you INSIST IT'S A PROBLEM...

GUESS WHAT?


Your the problem... and I doubt your a "mechanic"... maybe you know what a screwdriver does, but that's about it.

Let's see some ASE's! #$%@# Dumbass.

[slebidia]

Ban.

[ddd4114]

Firstly: as everybody else said, your ricer A/F gauge is not helping you. Here is what you should do to correct this:
1) remove gauge from car
2) step on it
3) repeat step (2) twenty-six times
4) headbutt your driveway

As far as your REAL problem goes (you're experiencing hesitation and lack of power): check your ignition and cam timing; your timing belt may have skipped a tooth. If the timing is fine, check your ignition components (for the challenged "mechanic", that includes: spark plugs, spark plug wires, distributor cap, etc.). If you haven't already, make sure your air and fuel filters are new/clean.

Finally, you need to stop listening to the "mechanics" (probably a pseudonym to describe your buddies) who told you to rely on voltage readings from the o2 sensor.

[Arachnid]

check compression lately?

[Haysoos]

You are not a mechanic. You might work on cars, but you certainly don't know what you are doing, and you seem like everything you know is what you read out of a service manual. So before ANYTHING continues, I wanyou to admit you are fucking clueless.

Then, SHUT UP AND LISTEN'

FPR
FPR
FPR
FPR
FPR
FPR
FPR
FPR
FPR
FPR

Go it yet? Going by what I have read, the only mods you have are the worthless guage and an FPR. Now, if FUEL PRESSURE wasn't being REGULATED properly, what problems would that cause? This has been pointed out about 5 times, and you STILL haven't acknowledged this.

If you really want to know what is going on, theres something you can buy. I won't sy what it is, because if you don't know by now, you need to buy a bike. Like, a 10-speed from walmart.

[civicdx91]

the only reason I got the guage is because I wanted to get an Ida what the O2 is reading. It is almost reading like normal from what i studied but it still reading way to lean at some times. I was driving earlier and the car almost died out on me and i felt a thump in the engine whie all te elecrtonics were ok. something is either clogged or not working properly. Can I get a decent non negitive opinion here??? And yes I have nbeen working on cars for 2 1/2 years. and I have an idea what can be the problem but i would like a few more opinions or views before I do anything ok. Thanks for listening.

[civicdx91]

The only reason I put up that guage is to get some idea of what my o2 is reading. It is running almost normal but the car is getting too lean at times and still not rich enough. I do have an idea what this can be. I also have been working on cars as a mechanic for a private garage for 2 1/2 years. I am just asking for a few more positive opinoins or views. Any will be appreiciated thank you.

[MiMiK]

wow.... put your stock fpr back in... please... and listen to what these people are saying. that gauge is ONLY a FUCKIN LIGHTSHOW!!!!

[JaredKaragen]

wow... this guy is stupid. I explaintd it in PLAIN ENGLISH several ways... nicely and not so nicely... what more can you do?

[slebidia]

Ban.

[jimmyb34]

so this is why you made ANOTHER thread???? be glad im not a mod

[JaredKaragen]

What an asshat....