Union Opinions.

[possumslayer]

Since I had a thread everyone liked a week or two ago about the age of members, let's try this one.

What are your opinions on labor unions, the poll showed that most of you (at least those who frequent this section of the forum) are adults, surely some of you have dealt with unions. Let's here it!

[transzex]

Unions done RIGHT is great.

Union employee from 1985 till 2004.........

Greedy bastard unions (UAW!) ruined everything.

[Lule]

I feel unions have kept the U.S. from being globally competitive.

I don't mind collective bargaining, but I abhor the 'shakedown' tactics used.

The unions seem to have very short-term forward thinking. It seems to be all about now!

[surfer459]

I work in a Industry that is dominated by unions. For the most part they are looking out for the good of the worker, but that can backfire too. For instance we have a dumbass at work who has been fired twice and got his job back both times because of the union. The only problem is the workers dont want him back, we feel he is a saftey hazard. On the other hand the union has fought hard through the years so I can get paid $29.86 an hour and have medical, dental, and visual insurance. Also a 401k where if I put in 5 percent the company will match me 8 percent! I know is some areas of the US thats not a lot of money but in Texas a 2200 square foot two story house with a Pool is 140,000 dollars. So $30 dollars goes a long way. And without the union who knows what I would be getting paid, and what benefits I would have? In the Oil industry Refinerys have that money to pay there workers and we work in a very dangerous enviornment so I feel we should be compensated and the refinerys are still globally competitive. But lets say a union started for the fast food industry, the FFI dosnt make enough profits to pay its workers large sums of money and if they had to they would go out of business. Prime example, the textile industry. Because of unions driving up the wage for relativley unskilled workers the U.S. has to farm out the labor to the rest of the world. This is were I think the unions are bad.

[Honda4VW]

I feel unions have kept the U.S. from being globally competitive.

I don't mind collective bargaining, but I abhor the 'shakedown' tactics used.

The unions seem to have very short-term forward thinking. It seems to be all about now!

Totally Agree

[eddcartes]

i used to work for a lawyer who represented labor unions. yeah sometimes unions can be more bad than good, but lawyers... it's a different story. they live like they live because of the money that labor unions make. that's why i quit. if an employee deserves to be fired because he/she is a safety hazard, is an insubordinate or steals or fights with another worker, then let it be done. i don't feel its right to fight for a worker who doesn't deserve it. its a waste of money and effort. that my .02 hope it helps.

[jimmyb34]

where i worked previously i was a part of a union.. i got fired for false claims i proved wrong.. the union didnt do one fucking thing...
glad i got a lawyer...

[possumslayer]

My only experience with unions has been at UPS, it is a teamsters union there. The only people the union protects are the people that don't need to be there anyways. They take my money, spend it how they choose, and all I get out of it is protection for some worthless p.o.s.
I believe at one point unions were good for the workers, but for the most part that has come and gone. There are very few industries that I could understand needing a labor union. Bone pointed it out, the UAW is a great example of a union that has done way more harm than good.

[93civiccx]

I've never worked for a union, but I don't understand why you would pay dues to a group that does nothing but bitch about not making enough. If you didn't have to pay the union, there wouldn't be so many strikes.

[kyle h.]

organization on that scale makes it hard to keep everything just, look at the U.S. Government for example.

[Toddnos]

something to be concerned with is the first thing covered by the union during contract negotiations is union dues....its a business, plain and simple. The business of seperating union members from their money. I have had to fire union represented employees, and the union didnt back them...waste o money imho in these days and times of state labor boards who will protect you the same or better than your union.

[Hellhatch]

I'm a union elevator constructor its worked out good for me so far. But as for the labor union the one at my job has a sweet ass contract but they work pretty hard. If it hits 95 degrees they get to go home with pay. *swimming pool and beer* bastards.

[Dweezil]

I live just outside Detroit, and my opinion is that they suck in unskilled labor situations. I have a friend that works on the line for a company that uses thousands of UAW workers, and somehow they think there getting screwed with what there makeing. Seriously, an avarage of $68/hour for unskilled labor after figuring in overtime, bonuses, and perks while my family and I are attempting to scrape by. But there getting fucked from all these buyouts getting offered and think there pay is "barely sufficiant".

I wish my company could afford to screw me over like that, I've actually talked to one of the owners before when we were working together and he wishes he could afford to screw us all with 3 weeks vacation and outragous wages, because that would mean he diden't have to come in anymore, and could pay someone to do it all.

[transzex]

Union PLUSES.......

know when your gonna get a raise, not if/when a sup thinks you've sucked more dick than eveyone else and you get the cushy job in the office.....under the table!!!!!!!!!! wink:wink

You can't be fired without just cause, if your fired you have a agreed procedure, still doesn't guarentte your job!

Non union, a pissed off sup, can fire you for any reason, no explaining needed.
Non union, hey, instead of $20 a week copay on your insurance, were just gonna drop it and let you suffer, don't be late for work because of kidney failure, you'll be fired.

I'm PRO Union to a point. Anti UAW when 1/4 of the workers are sitting on their asses due to "protected jobs".......I went to work knowing what was expected, proud I busted my ass.

Sure I was fired from last job, even it being union, a crooked Teamsters Local at that. Still I was able to get a federal mediator involved.

BTW, even if your not union, the ULRB will still fight for you.........

[goomer416]

Union PLUSES.......

know when your gonna get a raise, not if/when a sup thinks you've sucked more dick than eveyone else and you get the cushy job in the office.....under the table!!!!!!!!!! wink:wink

You can't be fired without just cause, if your fired you have a agreed procedure, still doesn't guarentte your job!

Non union, a pissed off sup, can fire you for any reason, no explaining needed.
Non union, hey, instead of $20 a week copay on your insurance, were just gonna drop it and let you suffer, don't be late for work because of kidney failure, you'll be fired.

I'm PRO Union to a point. Anti UAW when 1/4 of the workers are sitting on their asses due to "protected jobs".......I went to work knowing what was expected, proud I busted my ass.

Sure I was fired from last job, even it being union, a crooked Teamsters Local at that. Still I was able to get a federal mediator involved.

BTW, even if your not union, the ULRB will still fight for you.........



its pretty much the same here in canada... cept the uniuns tend to offer more benifits i.e. dental, health, optical...

[kyle h.]

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/EPH/8527~Stupid-People-Posters.jpg

[Toddnos]

Non union, a pissed off sup, can fire you for any reason, no explaining needed.
.........that is so not true...sorry to differ. Progressive discipline is the only legal way to fire someone. That takes time, not just being pissed off......believe me i cant just fire my employees just cuz im pissed..i wish i could!!!

[" Low "]

that is so not true...sorry to differ. Progressive discipline is the only legal way to fire someone. That takes time, not just being pissed off......believe me i cant just fire my employees just cuz im pissed..i wish i could!!!
that may be true there, but here in tx is a right to work state, which means if they dont like the way you spell your name you can get gone.... they dont even have to have a reason, just pick up your check and see yah..!

[Toddnos]

that may be true there, but here in tx is a right to work state, which means if they dont like the way you spell your name you can get gone.... they dont even have to have a reason, just pick up your check and see yah..!my company has offices in Austin, and Dallas, and they have to use progressive discipline as well....

[SillyImportRacer]

I've only worked in one union shop. The pay was decent. The benifits were good. But there was a lot of stupid stuff that wouldn't have been an issue with out the union. I got in trouble for working through part of my lunch. I needed to get some paper work cought up & this was my only oporitunity to do it with out more being added. There were guys who were incopetent that we could get fired, dipite a paper trail that would make any courprate lawyer proud.
Not a fan.

[sql_civic]

I worked in the aluminum industry for 12 years. (Steel Workers' Union ironically)

Besides protecting the jobs of goof-offs, they also can hurt the hard working types. No matter how hard I worked, all I got was that pre-negotiated 2% raise. So therefore the incentive is to work hard enough to just not get fired.

I'm not saying unions are bad as a concept, workers should have some kind of representation. And after all, they did manage to keep communism from taking hold in this country.

[" Low "]

my company has offices in Austin, and Dallas, and they have to use progressive discipline as well....
it also depends on the company and where it is based out of, ideally most companies still do progressive disc. but here they dont HAVE to..which sucks, because tx work force comission said, yup find a new job.....

[Toddnos]

^that sux for texans!!

[kyle h.]

so long as you work hard,
arn't a retard,
or a fat lard,
you shouldn't get fard!

[myHonda1]

so long as you work hard,
arn't a retard,
or a fat lard,
you shouldn't get fard!
true dat!

[Toddnos]

+1^^^^

[Dweezil]

Union PLUSES.......

know when your gonna get a raise, not if/when a sup thinks you've sucked more dick than eveyone else and you get the cushy job in the office.....under the table!!!!!!!!!! wink:wink

You can't be fired without just cause, if your fired you have a agreed procedure, still doesn't guarentte your job!

Non union, a pissed off sup, can fire you for any reason, no explaining needed.
Non union, hey, instead of $20 a week copay on your insurance, were just gonna drop it and let you suffer, don't be late for work because of kidney failure, you'll be fired.

I'm PRO Union to a point. Anti UAW when 1/4 of the workers are sitting on their asses due to "protected jobs".......I went to work knowing what was expected, proud I busted my ass.

Sure I was fired from last job, even it being union, a crooked Teamsters Local at that. Still I was able to get a federal mediator involved.

BTW, even if your not union, the ULRB will still fight for you.........

I'll agree that in some cases a union is a good thing, mostly skilled trade jobs. Sorry but grocery baggers and line workers (along with most other positions that require an IQ over 65, at least 1 functioning arm, and can get there) shoulden't be unionized. All it does is screws the consumer because the Unions (and Mafia) get greedy and want more money and benifits for less work. If you have a job that meets these requirments (again; IQ over 65, at least 1 functioning arm, and can get there), then the people that rise to the top should get paid more.

[transzex]

fair wages, very simple IMHO..........

What a grocery store Produce manager should only be making $7 a hour? Sorry, at 17 my son is already in training and will be making $14-15 a hour when he turns 18...$40K a year and Krogers will help pay for college tution.

Explain how that is bad?

yes there are dipshits that can even push carts. Pretty bad when a HANDICAPPED guy does most of the carts and nver complains. He works hard, is paid a union wage, The kids making 6,25 starting out just stand there, complain they never get a raise.

PS: I started out making $3.00 a hour at my first job, busted ass..........

And yes a UNION telling you NOT to bust ass is BS to a point. But when your GOOD and the company thinks ONE person can do 150% of the normal job, everyone should be able, why I got canned at my last union job.

[cory jordan]

ok well im gonna set up some shite for you. i work for THE biggest grocery store chain in california. all owned by one person, and each store is different.in the union non union sense. the postion that i hold is bagger/stocker/bitch/cart getter.(guess bitch sums it up) anyways. our grocery is non union. the meat is and produce is union. . our other store. like 17 mins away is. our job as 'service clerks ' is to bag, stock bags (paper,plastic). service out(take groceries out load them ,get carts) stock shelves. thats fine. i have been there 4 years *i make dumb wage 8.20*i started at 6.25 , yes i had oppertunity for a promotion.i've taken them twice, and stepped down to bag agian. for the follwing.if you look at the meaning of promotion it means to better your situation.*in my case.or anyone with my seniorty and oppertunity, i would have worked 3-12 closing shift and got 24 hours a week..a raise every 1600 hours. and at 24 hours it would have taken for ever.itsonly like 20 cents anyways per raise.
vs 40 hours a week and any shift i wanted as a bagger. *our seniorty (sp) starts over in the job classes. bagger vs clerk. grocery clerk vs service clerk
. in a union store. as a 'service clerk' you are limited to the following.bagging, cleaning registers. getting carts. servicing out. .... thats it.. nothing more. you are not allowed on the floor(isle side) unless they appoint you to do so, then they have to compensate you *of course they dont want to do that* so your ass is left up front. (register side) where its slow as fuck. no customers. no nothing. just you up front. unable to do anything on the floor no going to stock anything or to face the shelves. if its not in your job description .. than you can not do it through the unionwith out payment adjustment.
my store has been trying to go union for 12 years. and still hasnt made it. inwhich i am glad; i feel that union only benifets thoes who intend on retiring within the company, or want some one to have their back when they fuck up. i have been fired from my job and been re-instated through our arbitrary process (noted we are non union)
full benifets medical dental vision 2 weeks a year paid vacation, time and a half on sundays triple on holidays. personal days. sick leave. 401k fully vested in 7 years*that means anything i put in my retirement they will match up to like 20% per check (per week) im paid son.
idk about unions. i mean, maybe grocery is diff. than like steel workers. but we have a corporate office. and someone we can go to. human resources has my back. and if not. fuckin state labor board know's me personally.have a pending lawsuit against my work .
my company is savemart supermarkets. i hate/love the company. i just think that if you come in to your job, do your shit and get the fuck on. there is no need for union.
but in skilled workers. yes. ... there has to be a collective voice. i wish we had one somtimes. i mean. im no bitch. but when you have kids and free benifets. you gotta take the shit they give you...
.like i have said before. grocery stores might be the exception regarding unions. i know service clerks who are miserable in union stores. its not a good place. you need to have freedom and a chance to prove your self. any idiot can clean a register. but i mean. ok no it doesnt take a genious to bag groceries. but it takes people skills to deal with customers, tact. and devotion to your customers to make sure they come back.and are happy and had a good shopping experince
i dont know really where im going with this. but i know from where im at. (bottom of the food chain.) the union only hurts us. by not giving us a chance to prove our selves. anyone as i have said can bag and get carts. but not everyone can work on their own and figure out how the store runs and what has priority over what. ... idk maybe im wrong. but im koo off unions. and good luck with your stuff.

[ZackieDarko]

My girlfriend used to work for Fred Meyers and they are union. She made jack shit and a good chunk of her check went to union dues, a BIG chunk.

I'm pro union if it is for a skilled labor job or something of the sort.

If it's for a grocery store or some job any tard can do no you do not need a union.

[surfer459]

^^^Right on, Unskilled unions are useless.

[Normworldhero]

Personally, I don't like unions. I can't stand it when we're doing a project up north and we have to have a "union hall" member on site or we can't work in the area because of risk of reprisal damage to the job site if we don't. Having pay that extra wage to have a guy who is not part of my usual crew blows goats; I usually negotiate with the customer to pay for that extra cost.

As far as I can see, the unions want more money for less work. In the future, companies like mine will continue to pay good money for someone who wants to work harder to get more done in less time, and will do their best to avoid giving unions a chance to get a foothold. They are just more overhead.

[sql_civic]

ok well im gonna set up some shite for you. i work for THE biggest grocery store chain in california. all owned by one person, and each store is different.in the union non union sense. the postion that i hold is bagger/stocker/bitch/cart getter.(guess bitch sums it up) anyways. our grocery is non union. the meat is and produce is union. . our other store. like 17 mins away is. our job as 'service clerks ' is to bag, stock bags (paper,plastic). service out(take groceries out load them ,get carts) stock shelves. thats fine. i have been there 4 years *i make dumb wage 8.20*i started at 6.25 , yes i had ... etc, etc

Whoa, talk about a rant.

Sounds like a lot of pent up energy there about the job.

...that means it's time to move on.

[Toddnos]

If you hate your job then have some balls and leave.....

[Steve-O]

i'm not overly for or against unions. there will always be pros and cons which can never prove one way or another that unions are all bad or all good.

i started working in a union environment in 1994 for approx 10 years and the whole standpoint on unions will depend on who you talk to, the company they worked for and that individual's own personal own work ethic. i honestly liked having a union, especially in a plant with anywhere from 500-600 people working there. it ensured we had safe working conditions, we didn't get screwed out of jobs or positions we had put our time in or worked hard to get and many times it kept the company from taking things away we had worked hard to get or deserved as workers and human beings (holidays, vacation pay, benefits, etc).

what i don't agree with is unions who fight to the mat for guys who actually put in 2-3 hours of work during an 8 hr day or those putting a nut and bolt together on an assembly line at chrysler, all the while getting paid $35/hr to do that job. something is not right there IMO and i think the automakers are starting to realize that. i'm also definitely NOT for unions who protect lazy system abusing workers or those who WANT to get paid $35/hr but don't want to work doing it.

all in all, i think the job of unions comes down to ensuring safe working conditions, human and rightful treatement of workers and above all a fair day's pay for a fair day's work.

...In the future, companies like mine will continue to pay good money for someone who wants to work harder to get more done in less time, and will do their best to avoid giving unions a chance to get a foothold...ideally, that SHOULD be the case but in many cases is the opposite. to the best of my knowledge, most professional/"white collar" positions don't have unions (and if they do, it's not to the extent or ferocity of the automaker unions). last time i read a magazine, guys climbing the corporate ladder didn't have a union pushing them up it or throwing down a rope to them from the top of it. if you can hack it, you make it to the next rung. if not, you find a way to make it or you succumb to those who can, plain and simple.

not to blow my own horn here but i know how my work ethic is and what kind of worker i am and i would put myself up against anyone anyday. thus, in a perfect world companies would see this and compensate you, pay you and promote you accordingly. unfortunately with the greed of corporations today, that isn't always the case :sadface:

[Toddnos]

in a union shop lazy>hard work