Loose Change - Info about 9/11 [Kinda Freaky]

[JaredKaragen]

Well, I know this video is pretty narrow pointed... and in it's own light, with enough ""evidence"" anything can be possible...

but I think some of these things (not all) could very well be true...

Please watch the video, it's about 45 min or so, and then leave your opinion...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&q=loose+change

[njn63]

it's a joke. Search the other 25 topics about this movie and alex jones.

[93civiccx]

Croc O' shit.

[workinprog]

call me crazy but i think parts of it are true but other parts are pure bs!

[mikeD16Z6]

They do have a few good points. But for the most part it's total BS

[SOHC_Rules]

honestly, it definitely seems beleivable, but is it reality? nah.

[ryan89crx]

there was a thread about this probably a year ago...

there seems to be a lot of BS, but on the other hand they make a LOT of points that would be extremely hard to argue...

[Diabolic02]

Being a military member I can only say that I am here because I want to protect my loved ones and others. I can not speak about the events or give my opinion but what I can say is that I am here to support my country, For whatever reasons... Sorry I can not say more.

[flatfourfan]

there was a thread about this probably a year ago...

there seems to be a lot of BS, but on the other hand they make a LOT of points that would be extremely hard to argue...

^^^2nd that..........I'm sure that there are certain facts that makes a person think, but shit, that's human nature, to question everything.

[CrazyConscious]

Some of that shit is crazy....

[Normworldhero]

Now that you've taken the time to watch that video, follow the links below to put your mind right.

Read this thread completely, it's probably the most civil debunking of that "documentary" ever.
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/free-4-all/new-video-being-released-showing-plane-hitting-pentagon-273025/?highlight=dylan+avery

Also for debunkage:
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

One more for the road: (scroll past the Maddox madness to the links at the bottom for more debunkage)
http://www.maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=911_morons

[lordtara]

loose change is shit compared to 911 mysteries. this one is an hour and a half, asks a lot more questions and provides waaaaaay more info than loose change.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8172271955308136871

[Fooshitinkinjssomethingorother]

HAWTLY

While it was well presented nad not blatantly bashing everything with no provocation, it was still like all the other stuff out there. True? maybe. Guess we'll find out in 50 years.

[EJ1 SCRAPPIN]

loose change is shit compared to 911 mysteries. this one is an hour and a half, asks a lot more questions and provides waaaaaay more info than loose change.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8172271955308136871
THIS MAKES YOU THINK !
STILL WHATS BS AND WHATS REAL?

[TREBLE]

i think it was very interesting and got me thinking, hmm...

[CrazyConscious]

i think it was very interesting and got me thinking, hmm...
yea, they do bring up some interesting points.

[njn63]

Read this thread completely, it's probably the most civil debunking of that "documentary" ever.
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/free-4-all/new-video-being-released-showing-plane-hitting-pentagon-273025/?highlight=dylan+avery


That rules so much. I love how the conspiracy changed 5 times. Everyone should read that topic because basically all the pentagon shit gets debunked.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html -regarding the WTC collapse

I wrote a long post in one of the older topics about this movie. Basically, they jump around a lot and try to make words that aren't the same synonyms. (melting and weakening for example are NOT THE SAME THING)

[CrazyConscious]

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/whatsnew/5fa21e6759a4c010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html -regarding the WTC collapse
That link goes to a review of a personal tank motorcycle looking thing...:noway:

[njn63]

That link goes to a review of a personal tank motorcycle looking thing...:noway:

oops, copy and pasted a link on aim before i pasted that url here i guess. The right link: http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html

[JaredKaragen]

It's just kinda freeky: things such as the pentagon statements: lack of damage to street/lawn, lack of damage from engines mounted on wings... lack of sheetmetal that made up the wings,
the sound theory of temperatures required over time to be able to melt steel in the towers, let alone light a fire in the WTC that would cause it itself to collapse....

there are somewhat blind acusations made in the film.. that are kinda upsetting... especially because some of his news sources are no better than tabloids you get at the market...

but they make some interesting points...

[flatfourfan]

Well I honestly don't buy much of the bullshit that made up 9/11 in general. A lot of stuff just doesn't add up.......

-The plane that crashed into the pentagon.......I call BS to that
-The fact that the twin towers collapsed due to the steel being weakend due to the fire, I call BS to that as well as it didn't burn hot enough, a falling building does not fall at the same speed as one that's being demo'd.
-The Tower 7 building that went down later was deff a demolition job, I mean fuck........the roof shot from the building accross the road showed the centre cave in first.

I'm surprised that Americans in general accept the BS that they're being told......

[njn63]

the sound theory of temperatures required over time to be able to melt steel in the towers

you don't have to melt steel to weaken it. Ever used a torch?

[Normworldhero]

Ya'll need some seriously strong tin foil hats around here.

[njn63]

in general the only people believeing conspiracy theories are the ones that are too lazy to do research for themselves and unqualified to form an opinion about something of that nature. This post is a good example:
Well I honestly don't buy much of the bullshit that made up 9/11 in general. A lot of stuff just doesn't add up.......

-The plane that crashed into the pentagon.......I call BS to that
-The fact that the twin towers collapsed due to the steel being weakend due to the fire, I call BS to that as well as it didn't burn hot enough, a falling building does not fall at the same speed as one that's being demo'd.
-The Tower 7 building that went down later was deff a demolition job, I mean fuck........the roof shot from the building accross the road showed the centre cave in first.

I'm surprised that Americans in general accept the BS that they're being told......

What hit the pentagon then? A magical missle that is huge but doesn't do much damage? Furthermore, where did all those airplane parts come from? Oh, and where did the airplane go? How about the fact that the fireball is consistant with what jet fuel makes? Lets ignore all of those facts though, it wasn't a plane ;)

What would stop the WTC once it started to fall? Do you have any fucking clue the forces involved in a building that size even falling 10 feet? I'm not even going to get into the steel being weakened by fire part because that's been proven time and time again and if you're too lazy to figure it out oh well.

Do you even have any reliable info on WTC 7? I have yet to see some so i have not formed an opinion either way on that. I'm going to take a wild guess though and say the govt's account of what happened was accurate considering how well put together other conspiracies have been.

[flatfourfan]

in general the only people believeing conspiracy theories are the ones that are too lazy to do research for themselves and unqualified to form an opinion about something of that nature. This post is a good example:


What hit the pentagon then? A magical missle that is huge but doesn't do much damage? Furthermore, where did all those airplane parts come from? Oh, and where did the airplane go? How about the fact that the fireball is consistant with what jet fuel makes? Lets ignore all of those facts though, it wasn't a plane ;)

What would stop the WTC once it started to fall? Do you have any fucking clue the forces involved in a building that size even falling 10 feet? I'm not even going to get into the steel being weakened by fire part because that's been proven time and time again and if you're too lazy to figure it out oh well.

Do you even have any reliable info on WTC 7? I have yet to see some so i have not formed an opinion either way on that. I'm going to take a wild guess though and say the govt's account of what happened was accurate considering how well put together other conspiracies have been.

So they've got to you too huh?.

bastards.............

[Arachnid]

lets just say, "the 'government' will kill off whoever, whatever, and however they please."

the "system" is more horrible than you guys can ever imagine.

[Normworldhero]

Could you be any more ambiguous and scary? You almost sound like one of the guys who directed Loose Change.

[thatguy]

lets just say, "the 'government' will kill off whoever, whatever, and however they please."

the "system" is more horrible than you guys can ever imagine.

Ok, so if that is true and the "facts" in Loose Change are true why wouldn't they just kill Alex Jones or whatever his name is? And why wouldn't the gov't take action to prevent this movie from hitting the net and ruining there secret plan.

One thing I would like to point out is that this is a movie, not a documentary as the douchebags that made it say it is. A documentary generally requires facts which none of that shit is. These theories have been debunked by so many publications, scientists and engineers it isn't even funny. 99.9% of the scientists and engineers that have spoken against the gov't in this case are either wackjobs or completely incompetent. And if you watch how this movie is made they spin the reports (which were mostly made the day of 9/11 which means they don't have the benefit of knowledge or actual research) til there is not even a shred of truth left and then put some scary music in the background. Sound familiar? It should, because it is the same shit that Hollywood does in there movies to create dramitic effect.

Now, did George Bush use this horrible event to his advantage? Yes. Did he use it to start a war based on false information in Iraq to finish his daddy's dirty work? Yes. The man and his administration are far from honest/smart/tactful. But there is no way they blew up the WTC.

[Senses Fail y0!]

Don't tell me this is another one of those College Kid made movies on what he knows from his 1 year experience in college. Please... remove your tinfoil hats people.

[Misfit]

ive waqtched this a few times and dojne some research on it. my friend just got his masters in chemistry and he did some research on the rocket fuel. so far i would say about 75% of things we looked up are right. some things though when they talk about the fiscal year are kinda sketchy. fiscal years can start in july and goto june the next year. you can really mess with accounting and money figures with fiscal year quotes. overall i think everyone needs to at least watch it and realize that it is an opinion with some factual evidence. do some research and educate yourself on the subject. itll be good for ya

[JaredKaragen]

ive waqtched this a few times and dojne some research on it. ][ overall i think everyone needs to at least watch it and realize that it is an opinion with some factual evidence. do some research and educate yourself on the subject. itll be good for ya

Exactly why I posted it... it just points out some in-consistencies.

[4Door Life]

Being a military member I can only say that I am here because I want to protect my loved ones and others. I can not speak about the events or give my opinion but what I can say is that I am here to support my country, For whatever reasons... Sorry I can not say more.
i would like to say thank you, people like you are what help's to make this a great country...

thank you to all the men and women out there keeping us safe at home... i know i speak for all of us when i say, i really appreicate what you people are doing for us and i hope this war ends soon so everyone can get back home safe and sound...


as for the 911 story, i dont know what to belive... in my heart im sad to say that we did this and blamed them for it... its all about the oil... bin laden, saduam, they need to go anyway... that part of the world is really fucked up to there people... i really dont even think it matters any more who was responsable for the towers... it will never be proven to everyones satisfaction as to what really went on... lets just try to concentraite on were we are now as a country...

lets not forget the inocent mothers, fathers, sister's and brothers that died that day... it was and will allways be this generations pearl harbor...






(i hope this will be taken in the way i ment to be taken, im not a very good writer... )

[Arachnid]

Ok, so if that is true and the "facts" in Loose Change are true why wouldn't they just kill Alex Jones or whatever his name is? And why wouldn't the gov't take action to prevent this movie from hitting the net and ruining there secret plan.

One thing I would like to point out is that this is a movie, not a documentary as the douchebags that made it say it is. A documentary generally requires facts which none of that shit is. These theories have been debunked by so many publications, scientists and engineers it isn't even funny. 99.9% of the scientists and engineers that have spoken against the gov't in this case are either wackjobs or completely incompetent. And if you watch how this movie is made they spin the reports (which were mostly made the day of 9/11 which means they don't have the benefit of knowledge or actual research) til there is not even a shred of truth left and then put some scary music in the background. Sound familiar? It should, because it is the same shit that Hollywood does in there movies to create dramitic effect.

Now, did George Bush use this horrible event to his advantage? Yes. Did he use it to start a war based on false information in Iraq to finish his daddy's dirty work? Yes. The man and his administration are far from honest/smart/tactful. But there is no way they blew up the WTC.

...ignorance is a bliss...

[RaveN1814]

FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."





So, at 1800 degrees, the steel was down to only 10% of it's structural integrity? And the fire got as hot as 1832 degrees? Hmmmmm? I wonder what happened....

As for anyone else who still believes any of the moronic conspiracy theories I highly suggest you take a look at this...

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...e/1227842.html

....everyone should do themselve's a favor and read all of the pages in that link and see how hard FACTS completely debunk the conspiracy claims/theories one by one.

[Misfit]

raven: have you ever watched that video? im not saying what you cut and pasted was wrong, me and my friend have read that too. but there is alot of things about the pentagon that are fishy and some of the video footage is a little on the strange side as well as the quotes of the people who were actually there. and BTW-that hatch in your signature is SICK~! lol

Diabolic02: thanks again for defending our country. three of my 5 best friends in high school went into the army or navy and its because of you guys that we feel so safe at home. ive talked to other students from my school who are from the middle east and say that the work we are doing over there is very appreciated and that they are very thankful for what you guys are doing. you have my full respect for doing what you do. thanks again.

[4Door Life]

As for anyone else who still believes any of the moronic conspiracy theories I highly suggest you take a look at this...

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...e/1227842.html

....everyone should do themselve's a favor and read all of the pages in that link and see how hard FACTS completely debunk the conspiracy claims/theories one by one.

sorry man but this did nothing for me... ive seen video both on the news and other places on the net... if you pay real close attention to the planes when they first impact the WTC you can see someting being fired from the right wing, could be a missel... there is a pod on the bottom of the right wing that should not be there... and yes once again there is something being fired out of this pod as it makes contact with the world trade center... every video you see on the net will show this... pay close attention to it next time you see it... ask yourself, how in the fuck could this be on a plane and not one passenger notices it or comments on it, IMO, there were no passengers on the plane...

[RaveN1814]

raven: have you ever watched that video? im not saying what you cut and pasted was wrong, me and my friend have read that too. but there is alot of things about the pentagon that are fishy and some of the video footage is a little on the strange side as well as the quotes of the people who were actually there. and BTW-that hatch in your signature is SICK~! lol

Diabolic02: thanks again for defending our country. three of my 5 best friends in high school went into the army or navy and its because of you guys that we feel so safe at home. ive talked to other students from my school who are from the middle east and say that the work we are doing over there is very appreciated and that they are very thankful for what you guys are doing. you have my full respect for doing what you do. thanks again.

Yes, I've seen the video, I watched the whole thing. People on here need to remove their tinfoil hats asap.

[njn63]

sorry man but this did nothing for me... ive seen video both on the news and other places on the net... if you pay real close attention to the planes when they first impact the WTC you can see someting being fired from the right wing, could be a missel... there is a pod on the bottom of the right wing that should not be there... and yes once again there is something being fired out of this pod as it makes contact with the world trade center... every video you see on the net will show this... pay close attention to it next time you see it... ask yourself, how in the fuck could this be on a plane and not one passenger notices it or comments on it, IMO, there were no passengers on the plane...

Where's The Pod?
CLAIM: Photographs and video footage shot just before United Airlines Flight 175 hit the South Tower of the World Trade Center (WTC) show an object underneath the fuselage at the base of the right wing. The film "911 In Plane Site" and the Web site LetsRoll911.org claim that no such object is found on a stock Boeing 767. They speculate that this "military pod" is a missile, a bomb or a piece of equipment on an air-refueling tanker. LetsRoll911.org points to this as evidence that the attacks were an "inside job" sanctioned by "President George Bush, who planned and engineered 9/11."
FACT: One of the clearest, most widely seen pictures of the doomed jet's undercarriage was taken by photographer Rob Howard and published in New York magazine and elsewhere (opening page). PM sent a digital scan of the original photo to Ronald Greeley, director of the Space Photography Laboratory at Arizona State University. Greeley is an expert at analyzing images to determine the shape and features of geological formations based on shadow and light effects. After studying the high-resolution image and comparing it to photos of a Boeing 767-200ER's undercarriage, Greeley dismissed the notion that the Howard photo reveals a "pod." In fact, the photo reveals only the Boeing's right fairing, a pronounced bulge that contains the landing gear. He concludes that sunlight glinting off the fairing gave it an exaggerated look. "Such a glint causes a blossoming (enlargement) on film," he writes in an e-mail to PM, "which tends to be amplified in digital versions of images--the pixels are saturated and tend to 'spill over' to adjacent pixels." When asked about pods attached to civilian aircraft, Fred E. Culick, professor of aeronautics at the California Institute of Technology, gave a blunter response: "That's bull. They're really stretching."



Furthermore, why? You're flying a jumbo jet loaded with jet fuel into the side of a fucking building. Shooting a missle prior to entry would be pointless nevermind being impossible.



As far as a bomb... do you have any clue what kind of damage that'd do? Especially considering the size you're proposing it was? Do some research before you start deciding what happened on that day.

[Rexinre]

There is a book out about debunking the 911 conspiracy theories by popular mechanics. It covers that video and many other "theories" about 911.

[Rexinre]

As far as a bomb... do you have any clue what kind of damage that'd do? Especially considering the size you're proposing it was? Do some research before you start deciding what happened on that day.

Exactly... a missile was designed to penetrate and explode... So their implying it penetrated and didn't go off?? LOL thats silly. A missile would have leveled that whole building and then some.

[SOHC_STUDENT]

I am also in the "I don't believe half that crap but it does raise a lot of good points" category.

Tower 7, Silverstien saying "pull it" and the fact that the basement held all the documentation on the Wall Street fraud cases. Doesn't that seem a very odd to you?

I wouldn't put ANYTHING past our government. Truth is always stranger than fiction.

[SOHC_STUDENT]

What I hate is that all this 911 stuff takes away from the real issue that everyone should be focused on.

The USA is WAY TOO MILITARISTIC. I understand we are the most powerfull and someone needs to police the world but thats what the UN is for!

Watch this. It's not hype, just a hard look at how the US has changed since WWII.
Why We Fight (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8494.htm)
This award-winning film provides an inside look at the anatomy of the American war machine.

"Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear, kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor with the cry of grave national emergency. Always there has been some terrible evil at home or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it ..."
-General Douglas MacArthur, 1957

[njn63]

in general the only people believeing conspiracy theories are the ones that are too lazy to do research for themselves and unqualified to form an opinion about something of that nature.

quoted just because it's come up time and time again in this topic.

Firing a missle from a hidden compartment in a split second (for no reason). If the govt had technology possible of firing a missle that quick from a hidden compartment wouldn't they have it on planes like the F22 Raptor? (which is detectable by radar when the bomb bay doors are open) Wouldn't someone notice it on the ground considering the pilot and numerous ground crew members look over the plane when it's on the ground? They only look at these planes everyday and know them inside and out, i'm sure they wouldn't notice a gap caused by a hidden compartment right? Nevermind the fact that if the Govt was doing something like this, why shoot a missle? Your chances of getting caught are so high. Get a fucking clue.

Furthermore, theories like this are exactly why we won't see the Pentagon videos for years. Some idiot will overanalyze a grainy image and find Bigfoot hiding in the corner with an RPG. We have probably 20 different angles of the 2nd tower impact/collapse and yet we have as many if not more conspiracy theories surrounding that then the Pentagon. And they're not all the same theory either, like 20 off the wall wacky ignorant theories. All the while no one knows anything about WTC 7 and they don't bring it up. Amazing huh? Moral of the story, more info that is out there the more info there is to misinterpret and warp to fit your theory.

[Normworldhero]

the fact that the basement held all the documentation on the Wall Street fraud cases. Doesn't that seem a very odd to you?

Not particularly; where would you expect the file material to be stored instead?

[Rexinre]

The USA is WAY TOO MILITARISTIC.

Haha you obviously never been outside of the US.

[4Door Life]

Furthermore, why? You're flying a jumbo jet loaded with jet fuel into the side of a fucking building. Shooting a missle prior to entry would be pointless nevermind being impossible.



As far as a bomb... do you have any clue what kind of damage that'd do? Especially considering the size you're proposing it was? Do some research before you start deciding what happened on that day.

wow, i think we all need to do some research... there are to many ways to look at this... everyone will have a differnt point of view... i belive the missle/rocket what ever it is that shoot out of the pod on wing was designed to make sure the fuel was ignited fully... this was it would cause the most damage to the structure... its not impossable, look at any video, unless you chose not to notice it because it makes you feel better, its right there in plane site...

[4Door Life]

What I hate is that all this 911 stuff takes away from the real issue that everyone should be focused on.

The USA is WAY TOO MILITARISTIC. I understand we are the most powerfull and someone needs to police the world but thats what the UN is for!

Watch this. It's not hype, just a hard look at how the US has changed since WWII.
Why We Fight (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8494.htm)
This award-winning film provides an inside look at the anatomy of the American war machine.

"Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear, kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor with the cry of grave national emergency. Always there has been some terrible evil at home or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it ..."
-General Douglas MacArthur, 1957

you do know that north korea is a nuclear power now, dont you... there dumb enough to use it...

[SOHC_STUDENT]

Want to see something that will really blow your mind?

Bush killed JFK
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4315024059102108031&q=JFK+bush+assassination
Bush Jr. killed JFK Jr.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-342185930070503560&q=JFK+bush+assassination

[SOHC_STUDENT]

you do know that north korea is a nuclear power now, dont you... there dumb enough to use it...

they dont have a deliverable weapon... their technology is stone age compared to US. I doubt they even had a sucessful nuke test

[4Door Life]

Exactly... a missile was designed to penetrate and explode... So their implying it penetrated and didn't go off?? LOL thats silly. A missile would have leveled that whole building and then some.

i hear what your sayin but the missle/rocket, what ever it is thats fired from the wing was only there to make sure the jet fuel was ignited, not to blow up the entire building... they allready had the charges in place for that... did you the viveo were the owner of the property said quotw"we made the desition to pull the buildings, there was too much damage done" or something to that effect... i belive there are NO coinsedences, everything happens for certain resaons... the fack he just took out a 3.5billion dollar insurance olicy just months before this happend, the insurance was specific to terrorisiom... to many things are are right there in plane site but get over looked... we will will prolly never know the whole truth as to what really happend...

[4Door Life]

they dont have a deliverable weapon... their technology is stone age compared to US. I doubt they even had a sucessful nuke test

they have the missle to launch and reach america right now, they did a test i think last month... by the end of the year they will be able to put it all together... the test they did yesterday registered 4.2 on the rictor scale, yes they had a successfull test...

[njn63]

wow, i think we all need to do some research... there are to many ways to look at this... everyone will have a differnt point of view... i belive the missle/rocket what ever it is that shoot out of the pod on wing was designed to make sure the fuel was ignited fully... this was it would cause the most damage to the structure... its not impossable, look at any video, unless you chose not to notice it because it makes you feel better, its right there in plane site...

you're joking right? Was there a missle at any of these other airplane crash sites?
http://www.nasa.gov/externalflash/NASA45/40/40image.jpg
In 1999, researchers at NASA's Langley Research Center in Virginia dropped a small airplane more than 150 feet to test whether design changes could help pilots and passengers better survive accidents.
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2002/04/15/crash372.jpg
At least 39 people are said by police to have survived when an Air China plane carrying 166 people crashed into a mountain in rain and fog today as it was preparing to land in South Korea's second largest city.
....The plane's debris was engulfed in flames, he said.

I find your ignorance baffling to the point that it's just funny. Read what Popular Mechanics had to say about those "pods" then think it through a little (use common sense questions). Oh, and remember that that crash above in the mountainside was done on approach speed which is about 1/2 of what the planes hit the Twin Towers at if that. Could you imagine how scattered a plan would be at that speed. And you think there wouldn't be an ignition source?

Nevermind the fact a fucking flare would ignite the jet fuel. You could hide it in something small enough that it wouldn't be noticed but you think they need to put it in a "pod" that is big enough to be seen from 1,000 feet away?

These conspiracies keep getting dumber to be honest. Go watch video of any plane crash that hits reasonably hard. They burst into flames just like you'd expect if you had an ounce of common sense. When you hit something going that fast it disintigrates very fast and there are multiple ignition sources on the plane alone, nevermind the building they're going through.

[njn63]

the insurance was specific to terrorisiom...

Because the building had never been the subject of a terrorist plot before right?

*yawn* this is getting too easy. Why don't you do some research and come back in a week when you finally have a theory that makes sense? Okay?

[4Door Life]

Because the building had never been the subject of a terrorist plot before right?

*yawn* this is getting too easy. Why don't you do some research and come back in a week when you finally have a theory that makes sense? Okay?

getteing too easy... you really think you know something dont you... have you looked at any of the videos of the plane running into the WTC... do that then come back...

the building has been terroriezed before, we all know that... im not sure what you point is...

[Rexinre]

the building has been terroriezed before, we all know that... im not sure what you point is...

I think his point was the fact that not too long before the same building was car bombed (or something). That is probably the reason why the insurance was taken out.

[4Door Life]

I find your ignorance baffling to the point that it's just funny. Read what Popular Mechanics had to say about those "pods" then think it through a little (use common sense questions). Oh, and remember that that crash above in the mountainside was done on approach speed which is about 1/2 of what the planes hit the Twin Towers at if that. Could you imagine how scattered a plan would be at that speed. And you think there wouldn't be an ignition source?

Nevermind the fact a fucking flare would ignite the jet fuel. You could hide it in something small enough that it wouldn't be noticed but you think they need to put it in a "pod" that is big enough to be seen from 1,000 feet away?

These conspiracies keep getting dumber to be honest. Go watch video of any plane crash that hits reasonably hard. They burst into flames just like you'd expect if you had an ounce of common sense. When you hit something going that fast it disintigrates very fast and there are multiple ignition sources on the plane alone, nevermind the building they're going through.

wow dude... you want to try to insult me for tryin to have a conversation with you... your a joke, you should keep an open mind... of coarse i know a plane crash causes the plane to burst into flames, that isnt what i said... i said the missle/rocket what ever it is was there TO BE SURE ALL THE JET FUEL WAS IGNITED... once again, go look at any of the fotage of the planes hitting the buildings and you will planely see the pod as well as the object being fired from it, there is a bright flash and you can see an object hitting the build below the planes initial contact... let me know you think this is and lets stop with the childish insults...

[4Door Life]

I think his point was the fact that not too long before the same building was car bombed (or something). That is probably the reason why the insurance was taken out.

well that would make sense, untill you rember just how long ago the first bombing took place, is it just a coincedence that he took out this policy just a very short period of time before this happened... again, there is no such thing as coincedences...

[Rexinre]

there is no such thing as coincedences...

lol, thats silly bro.

[Rexinre]

Lets try and not insult here... Lets not get out of hand here, Its going good so far, I don't want to be forced to lock this thread.

[njn63]

getteing too easy... you really think you know something dont you... have you looked at any of the videos of the plane running into the WTC... do that then come back...

Of course i've seen the videos. Do you have a clue what i have said yet? Here, let me spoon feed it to you:
Passanger jet crashing into a forest. Less velocity, softer object it's hitting, yet still a huge fireball: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg1uyRJjqaQ amazing
NASA flies a passanger jet into a wall at landing speed. Result? Huge fireball the instant the wing is hit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxLyBimKfW0
another angle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRfRHgOUkCo
Military aircraft (i believe a B-52) crashes into the ground: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFZAJu-KrtA Result? Huge fireball.

Seeing the trend yet? Also, don't those fireballs look eerily like this?
http://www.progwereld.org/images/progvizier/2001-Twin%20Towers.jpg
http://www.illinoisfamily.org/content/img/f27367/Twin%20Towers.jpg

Amazing. I just spent what? 5 minutes? And used some common sense to show why they wouldn't need any additional incineration devices on those planes. What's your next theory on why they needed a pod?

edit: Also remember that the first 2 videos were done at a lot lower speed than what happened on 9/11. The plane disintigrates so fast that the fuel would be spread much faster in the case of the Twin Towers. Nevermind the difference in fuel loads.

[4Door Life]

lol, thats silly bro.

everyone is entitled to there opinuon







(i know, i cant spell, it happens...lol)

[Rexinre]

everyone is entitled to there opinuon







(i know, i cant spell, it happens...lol)

Exactly... I understand, that is why we are posting on this thread. The thing is... try and understand what other people are saying (goes for everyone) and see their point of view.

Spelling thing... Copy into word and use spell check, it helps.

[4Door Life]

Of course i've seen the videos. Do you have a clue what i have said yet? Here, let me spoon feed it to you:
Passanger jet crashing into a forest. Less velocity, softer object it's hitting, yet still a huge fireball: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg1uyRJjqaQ amazing
NASA flies a passanger jet into a wall at landing speed. Result? Huge fireball the instant the wing is hit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxLyBimKfW0
another angle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRfRHgOUkCo
Military aircraft (i believe a B-52) crashes into the ground: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFZAJu-KrtA Result? Huge fireball.

Seeing the trend yet? Also, don't those fireballs look eerily like this?
http://www.progwereld.org/images/progvizier/2001-Twin%20Towers.jpg
http://www.illinoisfamily.org/content/img/f27367/Twin%20Towers.jpg

Amazing. I just spent what? 5 minutes? And used some common sense to show why they wouldn't need any additional incineration devices on those planes. What's your next theory on why they needed a pod?


lol, this was never in question... if you thought i was arguing that point then we are obviously talking about two different things... spoon feed it to me... look man, try to have a conversation here... im not insulting you in anyway... if you feel you need to do that then you should read whats being writen, then you would like myself, relise we arent talking about the same thing... you keep makeing the point that a plane turns into a giant fireball upon crashing... this was never in question... like everyone else i know this happens... my whole point to what i was tryin to get accross was and still is, what are the big pods on the right wing and what is it that is shotting out of it... ill try to post a video of what im talkin about so you can see what it is im reffering to...

[4Door Life]

Spelling thing... Copy into word and use spell check, it helps.

thank's for the tip...

[njn63]

lol, this was never in question... if you thought i was arguing that point then we are obviously talking about two different things... spoon feed it to me... look man, try to have a conversation here... im not insulting you in anyway... if you feel you need to do that then you should read whats being writen, then you would like myself, relise we arent talking about the same thing... you keep makeing the point that a plane turns into a giant fireball upon crashing... this was never in question... like everyone else i know this happens... my whole point to what i was tryin to get accross was and still is, what are the big pods on the right wing and what is it that is shotting out of it... ill try to post a video of what im talkin about so you can see what it is im reffering to...

you said they were used to ensure complete ignition of the fuel. I just showed in numerous videos that it did not need any assistance igniting.

Like i said, prove to me that it was needed. I've more than proven that what happened could of happened without any outside help from "pods"

And i have an attitude about this because i've dealt with about 500 people that claim to have a theory on "blah blah blah, there were explosives" and the only thing they can ever do is point to a video that has been picked apart numerous times by people that are experts in their field.

edit: Also, this post could basically be a paraphrasing of loose change so i have a feeling you aren't exactly "open minded" like you're telling me to be. You're version of "open minded" means i should blindly assume the govt is out to get me. i hear what your sayin but the missle/rocket, what ever it is thats fired from the wing was only there to make sure the jet fuel was ignited, not to blow up the entire building... they allready had the charges in place for that... did you the viveo were the owner of the property said quotw"we made the desition to pull the buildings, there was too much damage done" or something to that effect... i belive there are NO coinsedences, everything happens for certain resaons... the fack he just took out a 3.5billion dollar insurance olicy just months before this happend, the insurance was specific to terrorisiom... to many things are are right there in plane site but get over looked... we will will prolly never know the whole truth as to what really happend...

[4Door Life]

you said they were used to ensure complete ignition of the fuel. I just showed in numerous videos that it did not need any assistance igniting.

Like i said, prove to me that it was needed. I've more than proven that what happened could of happened without any outside help from "pods"

And i have an attitude about this because i've dealt with about 500 people that claim to have a theory on "blah blah blah, there were explosives" and the only thing they can ever do is point to a video that has been picked apart numerous times by people that are experts in their field.


i see, so 500 other people are causeing you to have an attitude here... i guess i can understand that... you know it cant be proven, its a theory... thats what this whole thread is, one persons theory after anothers... if it could be proven... it would be a fact at that point... i never picked any video, i said, take alook at any video of your choice... the pods are there, there is in fact something being shot out of them... i do not know what, i cant and wont try to prove anything... i simply asked for your opinon as to what YOU think it is and what YOU think might be shooting out of the pod... simple as that... if you dont want to give an opinon, you dont have to...

[4Door Life]

bye the way, ive been watching the video of jfk/bush... its pretty intresting...

[njn63]

since you refuse to post a source, i'll just go off of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbCcb6NV8Io It's from Loose change i believe.

I'm not even going to talk about trying to zoom in on 4 pixels in the first tower that gets hit, so lets just go to the second one.

#1. Why is he worrying about 2 completely different things in 2 different videos? The first video looks a lot like the shadow that the engine (on the right, lining directly up with that shadow) would cause on the underbelly huh?
#2. In the second video, the "flash" is clearly visible even as the explosion is taking place on the tower. Furthermore, what kind of magic missile doesn't go faster than a 767? Or where is the missile period? They don't accelerate that fast.

Still not seeing any pods.

[4Door Life]

since you refuse to post a source, i'll just go off of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbCcb6NV8Io It's from Loose change i believe.

I'm not even going to talk about trying to zoom in on 4 pixels in the first tower that gets hit, so lets just go to the second one.

#1. Why is he worrying about 2 completely different things in 2 different videos? The first video looks a lot like the shadow that the engine (on the right, lining directly up with that shadow) would cause on the underbelly huh?
#2. In the second video, the "flash" is clearly visible even as the explosion is taking place on the tower. Furthermore, what kind of magic missile doesn't go faster than a 767? Or where is the missile period? They don't accelerate that fast.

Still not seeing any pods.

first off i didnt refuse to post a vid, i said i would look for one so lets keep that straight... the vid you posted shows exactly what ive been askin about... it shows and extra piece of equipment on the plane, i called it a pod... you can planely see the object being fired out out of the pod and stirking the building before the plane makes contact... this is what ive been talkin about this who time... if you dont see it, thats cool... i do, its right there... the missile or what ever it is, is coming from the plane itself... thank you posting this vid, im also in the chat room and was watching the video you posted of jfk/bush... i didnt feel like looking for video till it was over...

[4Door Life]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FOiQAGyPgg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2xrYwWhTF4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tHVhGk4Qkg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kruH2iVO0qk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOmSdVjdg8g

[Misfit]

im sorry but i dont tghink we are gonna prove what happened on a honda car forum. lol but i think its a good thing for everyone to do some research on and see how they actually feel about the subject. overall i think some people need to open up a little bit and some people need to chill out. good arguements though guys.

[Rexinre]

I think and know it was a big event... And for a big tragedy its easy to blame those who protect you, for they are the closest thing to you. I know its a big thing for people to swallow, but the fact of the matter is we were attacked on 11 September 2001 by a terrorist organization known as al qaeda. Trust me, our own government would not do this to us... For one undeniable reason: There are way too many people in on it to cooperate and keep quiet especially after 5 years. Forget about all the facts on both sides for a min. It would take too many people to keep their mouths shut about a huge "planned" event like this. No one has yet to come out and say I saw (someone planning yata yata yata) before 11 September 01. Its a little ridiculous to believe a few college freshmen who produced a video for their class to get an A.

If you think al qaeda didn't do it and the US govt. did; then by all means move to Afghanistan or Syria wearing an "I am an American" t-shirt, I am sure you will be just fine. ;)

Keepin it real
Rexinre

[njn63]

go to South Tower Impact, Angle 3 in the 2nd video. Explosion occurs after the nose impacts the building and away from the plane by a small amount. I have yet to see anything come out of the plane. My guess? Most likely a gas or electrical lines blowing. I'd have to research if they are actually in the exterior of the building near that point.

If the airplane launched something it'd be visible in all 4 of those angles in the first video you posted. Furthermore, the explosion on the tower takes place after the aircraft has impacted it. That makes no sense from a missile standpoint.

[mikeD16Z6]

I dont see an external pod in any of those movies. Besides, what would be the point of an external pod for everyone to see? Those planes have enough internal capacity for a big enough bomb. Thats one of the many things I dont buy in that movie. I love a good conspiracy as much as the next guy.. but it's BS.

[JaredKaragen]

All I gotta say is the whole bit about the pentagon really raises more than an eyebrow...

I just think he was wrong in saying if these few things are out of place, how can the whole thing be wrong?

[Normworldhero]

What's so wierd about the Pentagon?

This looks like airplane skin:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-5/736654/13.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-5/736654/lawn_scrap2.jpg

This looks just like one of the main landing gear of said airplane:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-5/736654/aedrive6.jpg
http://www.tamparacing.com/photopost/data/500/wheel.JPG

Here's the nose gear which penetrated through to the inside courtyard:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-5/736654/pentagonplanetire.jpg

If you still think something other than an airliner hit the pentagon try these designs for maximum efficiency in deflect government mind control rays:
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/attachments/free-4-all/2909d1147824949-new-video-being-released-showing-plane-hitting-pentagon-tinfoil-hat-preview-ii.jpg

[kyle h.]

heres the deal.

The towers collapsed.
People died.
Muslims @ fault.

[JaredKaragen]

See the skin... how far did it travel from the point of impact which itself was a MASSIVE fireball... and it's unscorched? not to mention that peice doesn't resemble ANY of the curves, shapes or "lines" on a typical airliner.... looks like small craft to me, somewhat like a cessna engine cover.


The earliest videos of the pentagon just show a SMALL HOLE before it collapsed on itself... The lightpole thing is absolutely _Mind Boggling_
I have been flying private aircraft for YEARS to know how much they can take, and how easy it is to damage one....

for instance, if I walk by our PA32/A Brand: Piper Type: Lance
and accidentally bump into the wing when walking by, it could actually damage the internal substructure and waeken the whole wing... Plane's aren't strong... you know how easy it is to mess up aircraft grade aluminum?? I don't understand how the wings didn't get ripped open/damaged by the poles as to release/spill/ignite the fuel all over that lawn...

think about it.... wing hits something, fuel EVERYWHERE.

The pentagon was more than likely a "We have a toe in the door, we need a foot or better yet a whole body... how can we do this?"

It has been proven they DID have prior knowledge of 911.... they COULD HAVE, and SHOULD HAVE acted earlier... but they didn't... why? Did you notice how many foreign military bases we have? Did it come to you that a master tragedy could be the only way to get the countries around us to aupport, or "turn away" from what the US is doing?

What about the fake binladen tape??? Any words on why our prestene investigative government would let such a CRAPPY fake come out? Explain the right-handed ness, and the ring.... please do. I remember seeing that video on TV when it first got released.

I say these things because just because your RAISED to be a RACIST, doesn't mean IT'S RIGHT.

#1 Use your head
#2 Don't believe EVERYTHING you hear... that's ludicrous
#3 make decisions on what you know.... dont be another sheep in the heard waiting to be processed at the meat plant...



and Lastly:

Keep an open Mind

[green_hornet_96]

I thought I might add something to this. I wish I could remember exactly what it was I saw it on (it was a video in school), but it was about some 9/11 official investigation as to why the towers fell. I believe it was from the History Channel. They determined the architecture of the building was at fault.

-Unlike most buildings with supports throughout, the WTC towers relied on all, and I mean ALL, support on the outside walls and the small inner core shaft. The outside walls literally held up the building.
-Braces spanned the distance between the outside walls and the inner core to keep them from buckling under the weight; these braces also held up the floors.
-During construction, they used spray-on fire retardant on these main braces.

-Plane hits building at 300+mph. Initial shock completely obliterates the spray-on fire retardant material off of the braces, and they are unprotected.
-Thousands of gallons of jet fuel starts to burn VERY hot.
-Steel braces DO NOT MELT, but like all hot metal, begin to bow under their own weight. This bending puts undue stress on fasteners that hold them to the ends-- the inner and outer supports.
-Subjected to heat themselves, and too much stress, the braces fasteners give way, and the building starts losing floor braces on multiple floors.
-Once the building loses too many braces, the outer walls flex outward from the weight of the building above it and give way, which means all support for the upper building is gone.
-As floor levels fall and take out supports below them, the building progressively collapses.

The south tower fell faster because it was hit on the 58th floor; the north tower, with its 91st floor impact, had much less stress on the supporting walls on the point of impact and had to lose more braces to cause a collapse.

[njn63]

See the skin... how far did it travel from the point of impact which itself was a MASSIVE fireball... and it's unscorched? not to mention that peice doesn't resemble ANY of the curves, shapes or "lines" on a typical airliner.... looks like small craft to me, somewhat like a cessna engine cover.

It's a crinkled piece of aluminum. Yet you can tell me exactly what it's from? (or what it's not from)

To me it looks like it might be from around where the "American" logo is on this 757: http://www.williamdemarest.com/images/American/american_757_1.jpg

Also, that piece is not very heavy and has a large surface area. If it was peeled back upon entry it could very easily of blown that far away. A split second exposure to flames is not enough to scorch metal.

The earliest videos of the pentagon just show a SMALL HOLE before it collapsed on itself... The lightpole thing is absolutely _Mind Boggling_
I have been flying private aircraft for YEARS to know how much they can take, and how easy it is to damage one....

for instance, if I walk by our PA32/A Brand: Piper Type: Lance
and accidentally bump into the wing when walking by, it could actually damage the internal substructure and waeken the whole wing... Plane's aren't strong... you know how easy it is to mess up aircraft grade aluminum?? I don't understand how the wings didn't get ripped open/damaged by the poles as to release/spill/ignite the fuel all over that lawn...

I've seen cars knock over light poles when they were hit at their base. The force would be magnified many times if hit near the top. And who's to say it didn't damage the wing? There isn't exactly a lot left of the plane to look over afterwards.

think about it.... wing hits something, fuel EVERYWHERE.

Depends on where it's hit and how hard of course.

The pentagon was more than likely a "We have a toe in the door, we need a foot or better yet a whole body... how can we do this?"

I'm sure that's exactly what it is. And you can plot this spur of the moment too right?

It has been proven they DID have prior knowledge of 911.... they COULD HAVE, and SHOULD HAVE acted earlier... but they didn't... why? Did you notice how many foreign military bases we have? Did it come to you that a master tragedy could be the only way to get the countries around us to aupport, or "turn away" from what the US is doing?

Because anytime anything was done people were critisized by the public for it. Clinton tried to a long time ago and a movie titled "Wag the Dog" was released about a year later. But yeah, we should be skeptical of everything the govt does because they're never doing things that help the country. They only have 100x more info than us to base their decisions on

#1 Use your head
#2 Don't believe EVERYTHING you hear... that's ludicrous
#3 make decisions on what you know.... dont be another sheep in the heard waiting to be processed at the meat plant...

and Lastly:

Keep an open Mind

I encourage you to do the same. While doing it though, be sure to consider these common sense questions:
-Where did they get all the aircraft wreckage from?
-Where did Flight 77 go?
-How do you maintain a conspiracy when you did this in full view of a BUSY HIGHWAY AT RUSH HOUR.
-Just.. why?
-If it wasn't a 757, what was it? And don't give me this "i don't know" crap because you know you're going to be made to look like a fool.