Phantom Grip

[booscivic]

I was wondering anybody using the phantom grip locker box, how you guys like it? Pros and cons>? Thinking of buying one for my d16z6 lsd are to expensive!!! Thanks for all your help!!!

[seano]

http://www.d-series.org/viewtopic.php?t=476

Wish I knew from personal experience. :?

[specialED]

I'd like to know from people who actually have had the Phantom Grip as well.

I know that Sport Compact Car put one on one of their project cars - maybe the Neon? I'd like to do an inexpensive LSD for an autocross/street car . . .

[booscivic]

Thanks for your replys but it seems that many poeple havent actually tried the phantom grip!!!

[Calesta]

Try on Honda-Tech... I've read a few accounts of people who have actually used a Phantom Grip and had it blow up in their transmissions...

[specialED]

I understand this isn't exactly what you are looking for booscivic, but anyway, from SCC April 2003 -

"Although there are some rumors a Phantom Grip can damage the spider gears, the unique heat treatment and the alloy of steel used for the blooks making up the body of the Phantom Grip is supposed to avoid potential damage to the differential's internals. Phantom Grips have been in long-term use on the Hyundai Factory Motorola Cup Tiburons as well as many SCCA IT and Solo II racers with no problems. Our 1.6 liter 200SX has been using one without issues as well."

What they said about performance -

"We were amazed at how well the Phantom Grip worked. There's no discernable additional tug to the sterring wheel. We can't feel any racheting or chirping like you can with some other differentials. The Phantom Grip almost eliminated inside wheel spin in the tightest of corners."

I called an old friend who's had a Phantom Grip installed in a CRX with a B16 for several years. I'll see what he has to say and post it.

[rally25rs]

I've heard good and bad. Some say there is a big difference and its great, others say no noticable change, but I have read from alot of people that you should get the stiffest strongest springs they make available.

THe way it works it will be direct metal on metal friction in the diff, so I would expect some wear. Personally, if it were a race tranny that'll need rebuilt at least annually anyway, i'd go for it, but a street car that you dont want to worry about, i'd steer clear - just my opinion though.

The effectiveness of it will also be affected by what kind of oil is in the diff. The Phanton Grip depends on friction between itself and the diff internals, so its line tranny synchros, where if you have too slick of oil, they don't work.

Here is a thread on ImprovedTouring for some more info...
http://forums.improvedtouring.com/it/Archives/Archive-000003/HTML/20011016-13-000055.html

If you get one, let us know the result!!! I've thought about getting one because its more affordable than a real LSD. Plus I don't even know if anyone makes one for an '89 teg, so....

-Jeff

[booscivic]

ThAN :wink: ks for your help and useful info I decided to buy one let you guys know how it goes!!!!!

[Anonymous]

I understand this isn't exactly what you are looking for booscivic, but anyway, from SCC April 2003 -

"Although there are some rumors a Phantom Grip can damage the spider gears, the unique heat treatment and the alloy of steel used for the blooks making up the body of the Phantom Grip is supposed to avoid potential damage to the differential's internals. Phantom Grips have been in long-term use on the Hyundai Factory Motorola Cup Tiburons as well as many SCCA IT and Solo II racers with no problems. Our 1.6 liter 200SX has been using one without issues as well."

What they said about performance -

"We were amazed at how well the Phantom Grip worked. There's no discernable additional tug to the sterring wheel. We can't feel any racheting or chirping like you can with some other differentials. The Phantom Grip almost eliminated inside wheel spin in the tightest of corners."

I called an old friend who's had a Phantom Grip installed in a CRX with a B16 for several years. I'll see what he has to say and post it.


I would like to add one thing to this. All the cars they are talking about have stock, or close to stock power. If you ar running any more power than that, I might not used the phantom grip.

[specialED]

I did talk to my buddy with a Phantom Grip. It's in a B16 tranny in a 2nd gen CRX. He installed it himself and did not swap out the springs.

He turboed the car with a Turbonetics T3/T4 kit about a year ago. He estimates he's at well over 250 hp @ 16 psi, although he hasn't dynoed it yet (I know sketchy info right?). He also has not run it at the track yet, so the tranny has not suffered through any hard launches on a sticky track.

But, no problems so far running a lot more than stock HP thru a Phantom Grip for over a year.

[Toddnos]

How much is the phantom grip compared to the quaife??

[Anonymous]

forget the phantom, just get a lsd vti tranny. same as si with lsd yummy.

[Toddnos]

forget the phantom, just get a lsd vti tranny. same as si with lsd yummy. i dont think vti's are available in the u.s.........are they??

[zeus zore]

forget the phantom, just get a lsd vti tranny. same as si with lsd yummy. i dont think vti's are available in the u.s.........are they??

nop ! and in euro the vti did not come with LSD !
but now the 5 dorr civic (gsr engine) has it stock so does the ITR

[Toddnos]

forget the phantom, just get a lsd vti tranny. same as si with lsd yummy.well then.........just how the f^%$
am i gonna get one?????????? Mr. Yummy.

[zeus zore]

forget the phantom, just get a lsd vti tranny. same as si with lsd yummy.well then.........just how the f^%$
am i gonna get one?????????? Mr. Yummy.

FROM JDM LAND ! :wink: :arrow:

[specialED]

forget the phantom, just get a lsd vti tranny. same as si with lsd yummy.

What kind of LSD is that - viscous, clutch, or Torsen? Viscous and clutch types can wear out, where gear-type diff's like Quaiffes in theory last forever.

A Phantom Grip attempts to mimic the action of a Quaiffe with spider gear loading - it responds to torque and limits wheelspin much faster than a viscous LSD can, which responds to actual wheelspin and takes longer to act.

I wouldn't want to pay good money for a used OEM tranny with a viscous LSD and bank on it to still be working effectively.

[Toddnos]

forget the phantom, just get a lsd vti tranny. same as si with lsd yummy.

What kind of LSD is that - viscous, clutch, or Torsen? Viscous and clutch types can wear out, where gear-type diff's like Quaiffes in theory last forever.

A Phantom Grip attempts to mimic the action of a Quaiffe with spider gear loading - it responds to torque and limits wheelspin much faster than a viscous LSD can, which responds to actual wheelspin and takes longer to act.

I wouldn't want to pay good money for a used OEM tranny with a viscous LSD and bank on it to still be working effectively.Amen brutha........

[Bizzar]

I too thought about a phanton grip but after having my spider gears shatter and actualy put a hole in the case I have rethought about this. they lock up by applying pressure to the spiders. If I can break spider gears with no help from a phanton grip then why should I even bother trying with one? Theres a f22 powered all motor hatch at my track runnin low 8's in the 1/8 mile using a phanton grip. I talked to the owner and he is not very happy with it. You can see on burnouts that each wheels spins independantly almost like stock. Now either its installed wrong or it just doesnt work. In theory I understand how it works and it just worries me about the weak spiders in our trannies. Keep saving your money. Trust me it will be worth it even though I have not experienced a true LSD but I have had the pleasure of putting in my 3rd tranny due to spider gears going kabloey!! I wont be hitting the track again untl I get a proper LSD installed and stronger axles. Each time you up the hp you find more and more weak links :(

My finds after supercharging and running slicks hehe
1. Clutch slip (put a clutch masters stage 2 in) then found...
2. Axles snapping in two. (put in stronger axles) then found...
3. Diff parts flying out the case and broken spider gears lol. slapped in another tranny and said screw it then found...
4. Engine mounts coming apart. Did a ghetto style poly mount DIY. then found...
5. More diff parts and gear teeth coming apart.

Yeah its time for an LSD.

[specialED]

Bizzar you are making too much HP!!! What do you run in the 1/4? I would think that at over 300 whp you should expect all sorts of things to break (as you've found) - this is just par for the course.

I have a MR2T with a little over 300 whp and it keeps ripping out the tranny mount bolts and stripping the threads - this is without any drag radials or slicks. Not many people with MR2Ts have this problem, even guys running much more HP and drag radials. I guess I'm just special. :(

[Bizzar]

lmao I'm not making much power at all (150-160 range I'm guessing if that!!) 95 CX hatch with a DX D15B7 supercharged at 8-10 psi. Full interior with a 12" sub runnin 9.39@72mph in the 1/8th. I think my problem is I'm making too much damn torque. Havent taken it on a dyno. I'm just a good driver and know how to "beat on it" hehe when drag racing. I launch at 6500rpm, flat shift, and dog on it every chance I get. Isnt that how it goes? Drive it like you stole it?? I gotta get off my lazy ass and get some more pics of the parts I'm starting to pile up. The axles look real neat. Broken off right at the cv nice and clean too. Almost looks like it was cut with a saw but in a more spiral/twisted pattern.

Are you kidding me? My car in my opinion is still slow as shit!

[KENetics1]

Just get a quaife lsd from camp1320.com, has the best prices around. If your a honda-tech.com member you can get one for $785 for most honda/acuras.

[rkcarguySI]

I've been looking for a LSD of somekind for my 91 SI, I'm turbocharged and it's a one wheel wonder around any kind of corner on power. I got one wheel in a stripe of moisture and had some dummy in a Jetta walk away from me while I bounced off the rev limiter in 2 gears......does anyone know how well the Phantom grip does work? What about the Hydro LSD trannies from the JDM mini me? How rare are they?

[delSolVXi]

the only place i have seen selling the lsd d15 tranny is hyperducktuning.com - they are around 500usd i believe, i do not know any other info or if he has them in stock etc.