ECU tuning

[andre_p]

hi there..i just want to upgrade my ECU by using piggyback..what should i go for,Apexi vafc or unichip?
thanks

[Pilawoos]

VAFC will be useless on a D17.. refer the thread 'Vtec engagement' .. very valuable info for 7th Gen owners..

[andre_p]

i don't get it why you said that vafc2 is useless on a d17??
do you mean that vtec engagement in d17 cannot be adjusted?

[gmcuajo]

VAFC will be useless on a D17.. refer the thread 'Vtec engagement' .. very valuable info for 7th Gen owners..

The vtec engagement point is at very low rpms, but you can adjust it anyway. Also you can use it to adjust the fuel map, with a new crower cam or for a d17a1 vtec.

[andre_p]

new crower cam with higer lift?
mine is already d17a1 vtec.

[gmcuajo]

New crower cam with higher lift and/or tuned for performance...

andre_p How you activate the vtec?

[maxquebec]

i have Emanage and work great but need a lot of tune

[custom_junky]

for anything below doing a full out NA motor, or boosting...there is no need for a piggy back or anything for tuning...the obdiib ecu (7th gen) is a self adjusting ecu that will self adjust much farther than the standard odbii ecus...even if you were to put in a crower stage 2 the stock ecu will adjust itself to use it...as for the best piggy backs however, the vafcii might be your best choice...however for a good tuning you'll have to go stand alone, and as far as i know the AEM EMS is really the only one out there for the 7th gen civic...

[andre_p]

if anyone know how much is crower stage2 cam?

[civic97]

crower.com

edit: spoke to soon i couldnt find the price of it there.

[custom_junky]

they are about 350 or so...

[xrem]

has anybody tried to use ad16a9 on a d17 head?Is the swap possible?:confused:

[redex04]

i doubt it is because the D17 is really compatable with any previous d series engin. i could be wrong though!

[gmcuajo]

has anybody tried to use ad16a9 on a d17 head?Is the swap possible?:confused:

From this and other forums, the only heads that fit the D17 7th gen civic is its own head. I never heard, but maybe other heads of engines developed for other markets (japan, europe, brasil) may fit the d17.

Is good to know about the d16w8, a 1.6L with 3 stage vtec and 130hp (don't remember, but i think was developed on japan) that came on those 7th gen civics.

Someone should do that thing that many other did with older civics, import the loved jdm engines.

P.S.
If you ask wth is a 3 stage vtec, it is just that (like 2 vtec engagements). A vtec that have 3 intake lobes: primary, mid and secondary; plus the exhaust lobes. (info is confirmed with a repair manual). Sorry about the english, i commonly speak spanish.

[xrem]

gmcuajo i've never heard of that engine!Is it possible to provide any links ti sites related to this engine?Sorry about the english i usually speak greek!

PS.Has anybody tried a cam swap on a d17 head?As far as i know a cam swap was possible in all d series engines,even if their displacement was different

[blackDseries]

theres no such thing as 3 stage VTEC. i dont know where you got this from but its not so. your intakes are either running off the primary and secondary lobes,(normal operating lobes for intake valves) , or the VTEC lobe. i think your just confused cause the manual calls the 2 non VTEC lobes primary and secondary. its just terminology. one intake valve rides on the primary and one on the secondary all the time , when VTEC engages , they both switch to the middle lobe. all VTEC is 2 stages , engaged or not engaged . and as far as whoever thinks you can get a crower cam for ANY D17 , you show me where cause as far as i know they dont exist. and no , no other engine has a compatible cam for the D17.

[blackDseries]

theres no such thing as 3 stage VTEC. i dont know where you got this from but its not so. your intakes are either running off the primary and secondary lobes,(normal operating lobes for intake valves) , or the VTEC lobe. i think your just confused cause the manual calls the 2 non VTEC lobes primary and secondary. its just terminology. one intake valve rides on the primary and one on the secondary all the time , when VTEC engages , they both switch to the middle lobe. all VTEC is 2 stages , engaged or not engaged . and as far as whoever thinks you can get a crower cam for ANY D17 , you show me where cause as far as i know they dont exist. and no , no other engine has a compatible cam for the D17. if you could get your hands on a D16W8 , would be a worthwhile swap in a 7th gen. im pretty sure a D16Y8 cam will fit in a D16W8. would open up the aftermarket world for ya anyways.

[custom_junky]

WOW!!! i'm sorry to correct you blackDseries, but there is indeed a 3 stage vtec, and also the 7th gen civic didn't come with anything but a d17 with a non-vtec head or one with a vtec-e head, and thats it...nothing else...

to be honest, there are several flavors of vtec...you may want to go and do some research about vtec...the different flavors i know of are the following:
i-vtec
vtec
3 stage vtec
vtec-e

there could be more but i'm not 100% sure if there are others...but i do know of these four...

[blackDseries]

I VTEC is same technology with hydrolic cam phasing. in a way you could call it 3 stage VTEC but not mechanically its not. besides I VTEC , theres no 3 stage VTEC. show me a link of a cam profile for a 3 stage VTEC engine please cause i gotta see. VTEC is on or off thats it. engaged or not engaged. i mentioned before , if your looking at a picture of a cam profile , and its terminology for the lobes on the cam go primary , secondary , middle for the intake lobes , thats not 3 stages. its just calling one intake lobe primary , and the other secondary and i have no idea why they do that. cause in essence both the primary and secondary intakes are primarys , and the middle or VTEC lobe is the secondary or bigger profile for high revs. for those of you not all that mechanically inclined yet , its like this , before variable valve timing , you couldnt get the best of both worlds , high revving profile and a profile that would allow the car to idle and drive half decent under normal conditions , plus throw in fuel consumtion , so on. thats why you hear an old muscle car with a cam i it idling , it sounds like it hardly stays running. all they had was vacuum advanced timing. meaning when the engine started to rev higher under load , the distributor under a vacuum driving it , would change the ignition timing by centrefugal action. as the centerfuge inside opened it changed when the rotor contact passed under the cap contact. anyways rambling now.

[custom_junky]

here is the link describing 3 stage vtec...
http://asia.vtec.net/spfeature/vtecimpl/vtec1.html
the vtec works in 3 stages, first being the single valve working, and the second being both working on the primary lobe, and then the 3rd stage being actual vtec where it switches to the secondary more wild cam lobe...that is the 3 stage vtec...

[blackDseries]

negative.

[savagepv88]

blackDseries, right on Crower's main page is a link to their entire 2006 catalog, listing the D17A2 camshaft profiles on page 84

[blackDseries]

well than my bad , i honest to god have crowers home page in my favs i could never find a camshaft for D17. if they do make one now , it hasnt been for very long. heres some links:
this one os for im assuming last years cams at so called blowout prices , no D17 cam available:
http://www.crower.com/cat/import/honda/cams/honda_sale.shtml

and this link is for thier new catalogue , and thier is a D17A2 cam now , im fairly excited , lol. my bad for saying thier wasnt guys , this is first one thier has been.
http://www.crower.com/misc/m_cat.shtml

[custom_junky]

negative.haven't been here for a while, but what is this begative for? kinda confused me *not to hard to do lol*...

[blackDseries]

hahaha , dont be so hard on yourself man jesus , lol , just meaning no to a question like the army , negative. or yes would be affirmative , lol

[civydcex]

That shut his no-it-all ass up!!!!!!! Dont talk to people like you know your stuff cause you just lost all credibility about any knowhow on civic 7th gens in my opinion. I'm sure if more people checked this thread they would agree. Do your homework before talkin crap next time. Must be the fact canadians still call EX's SI's!!!!!!

[civydcex]

Not only 7th gen but all gens!!!!

[blackDseries]

baahahahaa your a loser buddy. go ahead dude , go to crowers website and type in the part number for any D17 cam. see what happens mouth piece. maybe you should have a read and a look before trying to make others look stupid. i forgot more about cars than you know. so go ahead , www.crower.com , find the part number and type it in , asshole.

[civydcex]

baahahahaa your a loser buddy. go ahead dude , go to crowers website and type in the part number for any D17 cam. see what happens mouth piece. maybe you should have a read and a look before trying to make others look stupid. i forgot more about cars than you know. so go ahead , www.crower.com , find the part number and type it in , asshole.


All I was stating is that there is a 3 stage vtec for 7th gens!!! It is like a D16w8 I believe and it is 3 stage VTEC. I ama a loser though:mikej:
I do know quite a bit about Hondas myself and would back it up any day!!!:liar:

[custom_junky]

WHOA!!!! did i just miss something, or did civydcex just chim in with a "that shut his no-it-all ass up"? where did that come from? the post right before that was dated over a month ago?!?!?!

and BTW, i would have to agree with blackDseries, until you could provide some proff that a 3 stage vtec existed for a 7th gen...as far as i know the ONLY 3 stage is the D15B...

[andre_p]

d17's vtec is vtec-e..only 12 to 16valves change...only that..there's not any other vtec in d17.

[blackDseries]

are you guys joking me?? ive answered all the questions in other threads noobs , andre is correct , sort of. any vtec D17 is vtec-e. i have no clue what you mean 12 to 16 valves change. bad english maybe. only the intake valves have vtec , in any sohc vtec engine , be it real vtec or vtec-e. cause the spark plug tubes get in the way of an exhaust side vtec on sohc's.


and to touch on this 3 stage vtec you speak of , theres no such thing dude. i have no idea what you guys are talking about. vtec valvetrain is 2 stages , thats it , engaged , or not engaged. ive told gmcu as well , here we go last time..... when you look at the cam profile of a real vtec(not vtec-e) sohc camshaft , the lobes(things that rocker arm rides on which in turn opens valves) , on the cam are listed as follows , primary lobe(#1 intake valve rides on) , secondary lobe(#2 intake valve rides on) , 2 exhaust lobes for each of the 2 exhaust valves , and a middle lobe(VTEC lobe). 5 lobes on the cam for each cylinder as well as 5 rockers. now with vtec not engaged , each valve has its own lobe and rocker on the cam to ride on. with vtec engaged , both intake valves switch to the middle or VTEC lobe on the cam , by locking 3 rocker arms together into essentially one big one that rides on the VTEC lobe(in between both intake valves on the cam. so you see , no 3 stage vtec. not even dohc engines have 3 stage vtec. DOHC engines work exactly as what ive just said , only both sides have VTEC , intake and exhaust , cause the cams are spaced apart and the spark plugs can be placed dead center. which is same as a HEMI really.

and vtec e works as follows , instead of 5 lobes on the cam for each cylinder, theres 4. no VTEC lobe. primary and secondary thats it. heres how it works , with vtec not engaged , each intake valve (which there is 2) , rides on its own rocker and own lobe on the cam(primary and secondary lobe). but heres the catch , one of those lobes is near round , no profile at all , essentially keeping one intake valve from opening up all the way. now when vtec is engaged , the rocker arm thats riding on the near round profile lobe , locks to the one riding on the big lobe , voila , both intakes opening all the way(same amount as the valve that rides on the big lobe all the time anyways).

so before you tell me i dont know my shit , go read a book son. better yet , instead of that , just ask me stuff youd like to know and ill tell you to the best of my knoledge.easier than being a dick civy. and more helpful to everyone. you say i know alot about hondas and are willing to back it up , sounds like you know fuk all to me. not even the basics.

[Dweezil]

are you guys joking me?? ive answered all the questions in other threads noobs , andre is correct , sort of. any vtec D17 is vtec-e. i have no clue what you mean 12 to 16 valves change. bad english maybe. only the intake valves have vtec , in any sohc vtec engine , be it real vtec or vtec-e. cause the spark plug tubes get in the way of an exhaust side vtec on sohc's.


and to touch on this 3 stage vtec you speak of , theres no such thing dude. i have no idea what you guys are talking about. vtec valvetrain is 2 stages , thats it , engaged , or not engaged. ive told gmcu as well , here we go last time..... when you look at the cam profile of a real vtec(not vtec-e) sohc camshaft , the lobes(things that rocker arm rides on which in turn opens valves) , on the cam are listed as follows , primary lobe(#1 intake valve rides on) , secondary lobe(#2 intake valve rides on) , 2 exhaust lobes for each of the 2 exhaust valves , and a middle lobe(VTEC lobe). 5 lobes on the cam for each cylinder as well as 5 rockers. now with vtec not engaged , each valve has its own lobe and rocker on the cam to ride on. with vtec engaged , both intake valves switch to the middle or VTEC lobe on the cam , by locking 3 rocker arms together into essentially one big one that rides on the VTEC lobe(in between both intake valves on the cam. so you see , no 3 stage vtec. not even dohc engines have 3 stage vtec. DOHC engines work exactly as what ive just said , only both sides have VTEC , intake and exhaust , cause the cams are spaced apart and the spark plugs can be placed dead center. which is same as a HEMI really.

and vtec e works as follows , instead of 5 lobes on the cam for each cylinder, theres 4. no VTEC lobe. primary and secondary thats it. heres how it works , with vtec not engaged , each intake valve (which there is 2) , rides on its own rocker and own lobe on the cam(primary and secondary lobe). but heres the catch , one of those lobes is near round , no profile at all , essentially keeping one intake valve from opening up all the way. now when vtec is engaged , the rocker arm thats riding on the near round profile lobe , locks to the one riding on the big lobe , voila , both intakes opening all the way(same amount as the valve that rides on the big lobe all the time anyways).

so before you tell me i dont know my shit , go read a book son. better yet , instead of that , just ask me stuff youd like to know and ill tell you to the best of my knoledge.easier than being a dick civy. and more helpful to everyone. you say i know alot about hondas and are willing to back it up , sounds like you know fuk all to me. not even the basics.

Did you even read the link that was posted? There is a 3 Stage VTEC. First stage (neither solonoid activated) is a 12 valve economy stage like the EG Vx and EK Hx had. The second stage (first VTEC solonoid activated) swithces to 16 valve mode like a regular SOHC VTEC is with the solonoid off. Smaller profile, lower duration. Finally the third stage (both solonoids activated) is 16 valve, longer duration and a larger lobe on the intake like a standard SOHC VTEC. None of the motors with this feature were sold in the US, or North America for that matter, but came in 2 flavors depending on the chassis, in `96-`01 cars it was avalible as a D15B VTEC and in `02 and up was sold as the D16W8.

[custom_junky]

blackDseries, please refer to Dweezil...and in addition here is my own quote telling you were the 3stage vtec definition is...
here is the link describing 3 stage vtec...
http://asia.vtec.net/spfeature/vtecimpl/vtec1.html
the vtec works in 3 stages, first being the single valve working, and the second being both working on the primary lobe, and then the 3rd stage being actual vtec where it switches to the secondary more wild cam lobe...that is the 3 stage vtec...

[blackDseries]

None of the motors with this feature were sold in the US, or North America for that matter, but came in 2 flavors depending on the chassis, in `96-`01 cars it was avalible as a D15B VTEC and in `02 and up was sold as the D16W8.

exactly my point. except its 96-00 , not 01. i also dont think the W8 is 3 stage. like said above , the only one is D15B. and id say the only reason that engine was developed was to enter high emission markets , or IE , other than here. ive built lots of cars , and been involved in lots more. i fix cars on daily basis. so if you wanna think i know fuk all cause of one unique engine that wasnt even available here , power to yas i could care less.

[Dweezil]

Taken from here: http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=533783

In thailand and the philipines the 2002 civic comes with a d16w8 motor. its simillar to d16y8 except tht its 3 stage vtec (dual vtec solenoid) with independent ignition coil units built on each spark plug and has no distributor.


There are 2 D15B VTEC motors, regular SOHC VTEC (OBD-1) and the 3 stage D15B (OBD-2)

[gmcuajo]

Honda's "Albert Einstein" = blackDseries.

Wow!!! He knows everything!!!

[blackDseries]

i learn somin new about cars usually on a daily basis , i dont only work on hondas as well. any and all cars. the albert einstein of hondas would actually be kenichi nagahiro. if your a honda guy and dont know who that is , thats pretty sad. i definitely dont know everything , but i can guarantee you i know quite a bit. this is what i do. when people say that D15B is a 3 stage VTEC and there talking about an engine from the US , i know its not a 3 stage VTEC engine. maybe i should have used different terminology than they dont exist , but communication on puters is not as good as in person. my bad.
on the other hand , i wasnt sure the D16W8 was 3 stage or not(even though its not available here like i was saying) , but thats good to know , learn somin new everyday. its easy to go look up shit on the internet and talk like its first hand knoledge , me , i turn ratchets to learn. me and you have had good convos in the past gmcuajo , and you know it , so save the other bullshit , and dont jump onthe hate black bandwagon , lol.