View Full Version : Has anyone put a zc dohc head on d16 sohc block?
WILD_EYE
09-29-2003, 12:32 PM
Has anyone put a zc dohc head on d16 sohc block? I saw a post in ezboard but there were no details on how it was done. One guy told me that it needed $1500 of machine work done on the block to match oil and water passages. I don't think that is correct because I personally checked and matched the head gaskets from a d16 and a zc and only one hole did not match. Someone please let me know more detail. I would really appreciate it.
89hatchback
09-30-2003, 04:11 PM
as far as i know, you can not match a DOHC head with a SOHC block. im not super smart at this shit, but thats what i have heard, and im 99% sure its true. theres always that 1% tho :lol:
eftypeone
09-30-2003, 06:43 PM
theres always that 1% :lol: with that 1500 you can buy 3 zc!
Anonymous
10-02-2003, 02:45 PM
on a similar subject - you can mate a DOHC D16a1 head to a bored .040 over with d16 piston D15a3 block, i know a guy who is doing it :D
WILD_EYE
10-02-2003, 03:22 PM
Really! Then it should be the same for my block. The d16a1 and zc head are the same in head structure and the d15 and d16 block are the same. Can I get info on what he has to do to mate it? It would help me out alot!
eftypeone
10-02-2003, 09:38 PM
on a similar subject - you can mate a DOHC D16a1 head to a bored .040 over with d16 piston D15a3 block, i know a guy who is doing it :D :P :P :P
Honda Bob
10-05-2003, 07:50 AM
I am positive you can do this.
There is a guy running around here and thought he had a ZC engine. He is new to the Honda scene so did not know. The block is a ZC but the head is only SOHC.
Jmorin
10-06-2003, 10:52 AM
Has anyone put a zc dohc head on d16 sohc block? I saw a post in ezboard but there were no details on how it was done. One guy told me that it needed $1500 of machine work done on the block to match oil and water passages. I don't think that is correct because I personally checked and matched the head gaskets from a d16 and a zc and only one hole did not match. Someone please let me know more detail. I would really appreciate it.
Yea as far as i know you can't do this without alot of work but with the right amount of money you can work anything
AK_CRX
10-07-2003, 07:10 PM
on a similar subject - you can mate a DOHC D16a1 head to a bored .040 over with d16 piston D15a3 block, i know a guy who is doing it :D
The bore on the two engines is the same, I have always heard that the head is very different on a zc than a sohc though... Never heard of anyone that has succesfully mated the two...
gtpilot
10-08-2003, 08:09 AM
You can see what nivek2002 is talking about http://www.redpepperracing.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=3563&hl= - I built it.
Kirk
WILD_EYE
10-08-2003, 03:22 PM
Yo gtpilot! First I have to give you many props for sharing in great detail the info of your project, so again THANK YOU! I have been asking around for a couple of weeks now about putting a zc dohc head on my d16y7 and 98% of the replies was that it can not be done. And if it could, it would take too much $$$ in work on the block to get it done. The BIG question is.............. would you happen to know if it would be the same for my d16y7 block? I ask becauase on my d16 cylinder head the oil cap is located on the upper right hand side of the valve cover and in the d16a1 it is on the upper left hand side. This makes me belive that on my d16y7 it actually can not be done if the oil passage to the pan is under the oil cap. Any help is appreciated!
RedCRX90
10-08-2003, 08:04 PM
There is a guy running around here and thought he had a ZC engine. He is new to the Honda scene so did not know. The block is a ZC but the head is only SOHC.
Umm just to let you guys know, there is a SOHC ZC, they put it in the 88-91 CRX SI (JDM of course) among other things, its also got a dual carb setup. My buddy is currently running his with a SI intake manifold and FI, Ill be running one sometime next week...
Stock JDM SOHC ZC--118hp 100f/lbs torque
Its got a little more aggressive cam and higher compression pistons, but I am still lookin for more differences...
Calesta
10-08-2003, 10:54 PM
There is a guy running around here and thought he had a ZC engine. He is new to the Honda scene so did not know. The block is a ZC but the head is only SOHC.
Umm just to let you guys know, there is a SOHC ZC, they put it in the 88-91 CRX SI (JDM of course) among other things, its also got a dual carb setup. My buddy is currently running his with a SI intake manifold and FI, Ill be running one sometime next week...
Stock JDM SOHC ZC--118hp 100f/lbs torque
Its got a little more aggressive cam and higher compression pistons, but I am still lookin for more differences...
That's interesting... because when I took apart my SOHC ZC that is sitting in my CRX, yes a real SOHC ZC with the ZC stamp, and not just some poser block that I decided to call a "ZC" like a lot of guys out there- it had PM6 pistons in it. As far as I'm concerned, the short blocks between the SOHC ZC and the D16A6 are identical, and the heads are most likely the same too. The SOHC ZC is also not carbureted- it's fuel injected just like its D16A6 twin.
Here's your proof on the pistons (click for clearer monster size):
http://www.hondaswap.com/~mike/crx/sohc_zc_int/sohc_zc_int_med_01.jpg (http://www.hondaswap.com/~mike/crx/sohc_zc_int/sohc_zc_int_01.jpg)
The DOHC head will go onto the 88+ SOHC block, but you've gotta "drag" one of the head bolt/stud mounting holes over in the DOHC head. The cheapest way to verify what I'm talking about is to get ahold of a D16A1 head gasket and any 88+ SOHC D head gasket. You'll see what I'm talking about.
RedCRX90
10-09-2003, 04:57 PM
The SOHC ZC is also not carbureted- it's fuel injected just like its D16A6 twin.
Soo when you pulled your engine off the shipping pallette it had the fuel injected manifold on it? Because I have unpacked two of the bad boys now and had to pull dual carb setups off of each... when you drop it in, you just bolt up the FI manifold...
Now with that said we move on...
MississippiMike
10-09-2003, 08:28 PM
Just for future ref.
All D series blocks will interchange with all D series parts.
Am I wrong??? Correct me if I am... Im almost 100% sure im right... :wink:
Calesta
10-10-2003, 01:52 AM
The SOHC ZC is also not carbureted- it's fuel injected just like its D16A6 twin.
Soo when you pulled your engine off the shipping pallette it had the fuel injected manifold on it? Because I have unpacked two of the bad boys now and had to pull dual carb setups off of each... when you drop it in, you just bolt up the FI manifold...
Now with that said we move on...
:P
No clue... I think I read your post wrong, oh well. The SOHC ZC that I have is a cobbled together piece of junk that was in my CRX when I bought it.
:evil:
Not 100% true Mike, maybe 80-90% true. Some stuff just will not bolt up. The D family isn't as standardized as the B family. You've gotta be more of a fabrication artist with D-series to swap a lot of parts that just weren't meant to be...
WILD_EYE
10-10-2003, 12:30 PM
Being that my car is a 1996 civic should I be looking for a 2 gen dohc zc head? Will that make the swap easier in terms of the distributor. I ask becasue a guy I know is selling a 1 gen zc head without distributor. Would my distributor fit?
Anonymous
10-11-2003, 10:17 AM
Being that my car is a 1996 civic should I be looking for a 2 gen dohc zc head? Will that make the swap easier in terms of the distributor. I ask becasue a guy I know is selling a 1 gen zc head without distributor. Would my distributor fit?
VERY good question. I had a ZC and loved it. Now i just bought a 91 Si HB and have a y7. I would love to see if this head would actually fit. If so, we have a complete D16a1 head sitting around at work, and i could get it for almsot free. Keep the info comming. :lol:
Anonymous
10-13-2003, 11:17 AM
would there honestly be any advantage in putting a dohc zc head on an a6 block? as apposed to a mini me or just a whole zc engine??? what kind of c/r would be yeilded by the a6/zc combo???
No advantage that I can see. The only application I can see for this build would be if someone happened to have a DOHC head laying around or bought one from a junkyard for a song. The A6 crank, rods, & bore are the same as a ZC or D16A1, so there's no hidden power advantage.
WILD_EYE
10-13-2003, 04:40 PM
The reasons I would like to do the zc dohc head swap:
1- I keep my block. I really do not want to swap the entire engine due to the hassle of changing vin#. Here in Puerto Rico it is a real pain in the ass.
2- The zc cam profile is more aggresive than my sohc d16y7.
3- With seperate ex/in cams I can tune it better.
4- I want to be different. Everyone in PR either has a turbo sohc or a b series engine. There are only a few turbo 1.6l dohc non v-tec around here.
I figure if all I have to do is drag a hole in the head and wire in a dist then it should'nt be THAT bad. The work on the cylinder head is no bother, I have a freind that works in a machine shop. My only concern is the distributor, since my car is a 1996 civic. Thanks for the input, I can use all the help I can get.
JIG116
10-21-2003, 06:26 AM
I was wondering on this too as well, so I can finish up my project. There is a shop on ebay that sells worked on heads for a little to much money.
Anyhow, after reading there inventory they are selling a ZC head with a FULL LS VALVETRAIN!!!! The said the peices fall right in and it's almost like having a LS with out all the hard work.
So I'm looking for a ZC head that will work with my 95 EX, because I have a box here full with LS internals waiting to be put it!!!
So all i have to do is "drag" one bolt for the DOHC head to fit on my block?
Jason
Orlando, FL.
atomikpunx
11-02-2003, 10:32 PM
d15a3 is a ew engine. not a dseries as we know them.
its a 1gen crx si.
a1 head on a a6 block w/ a6 pistons = somewhere in the 7:1-8:1 compression range (been forever since the math was done)
a1 head on a a6 block w/ a1 pistons = 8.5:1 compression roughly
some oil passages dont line up, perfectly...
i have a theory that the brown top a1 and the black top a1 are differn't
and that accounts for the mixed up things w/ the oil passages not working
on some, some of them the dowel pin dosent line up...
the distributors are a pain in the ass, the 86/87 a1, the 88/89 a1, the d16a6 all have differn't distributor mounts, so good luck maybe use 2/3 or 1/3 and zip ties. good luck agian w/ that hurdle.
only 80% of the tranny bolts line up when putting the d16a1 on the a6 tranny, to let you know ;-)
if you have a obd1 car use a vtec head, i mean its simple ecu swap... and its killer.
JIG116, I have no first hand knowlege with anything newer than 1991. You'll have to step up & be the expert.
only 80% of the tranny bolts line up when putting the d16a1 on the a6 tranny, to let you know ;-)
Atomik is mathmatically exactly right about this, but rather than quoting percentages, how about pictures...I did some research one day- http://www.redpepperracing.com/gallery/TJs-Misc-Album
The facts about putting together a D16A1 and an 88-91 L3 tranny that I do know are as follows:
4 out of the 5 tranny mounting bolts line up - 80%. Both of the mounting dowels are spot on. On the rear-most bolt, you've to drag the hole in the A1 block upwards to meet where the L3's (88-91 tranny) threads are.
On the starter mounting, you must helicoil the tranny through hole, because the corresponding threads in the block are not in the right spot.
To fit the tranny on the D16A1, you must use an 88-91 SOHC thermostat housing. It bolts right onto the D16A1 - use the D16A1 waterpipe.
Facts I don't know for sure, but I'll venture to guess:
Use the 89+ flywheel, clutch, pp. You know the L3 tranny works with all this & the starter, although the D16A1 starter fits and appeared in very way to be the same. The D16A1 flywheel doesn't use an input shaft bearing in the flywheel and the diameter of that hole is not the same as the L3's input shaft.
I don't know about the intermediate shaft. I do know that the location of the differential is in a different spot than the CG tranny, what the D16A1 originally mated to (that info's all in the picture link above). So, using the A1 int. shaft is out. I don't know that the block bolt pattern, or the block surface offset-to-diff (horizontally) is the same as the ZC int. shaft. I'd guess that using the ZC shaft is not an option either. A safe bet would be to just use un-equal length axles.
Anything I missed may be found in this thread, typed out the day I did the research - http://www.redpepperracing.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=4631&hl=cg+tranny
BseriesKllR
11-12-2003, 04:55 PM
NO
OneFastEGg
11-12-2003, 05:01 PM
So i don't have to read all that. I don't think it would be possible. And yes there were be very nice advantages. But i am sure enough it would be two hard and SOHC pwnzd anyway.
Newbie on this forum but I have seen quite a few ZC engines. These are the ones I know offhand:
There is the USDM Browntop ZC from the pre 1990 integras
There are Sohc Non Vtec ZC's is the European 88-91 SI-16V that made about 130hp (I've been in one to 220km/h That car was fast!)
There is the JDM Dohc ZC (Black top) - I heard these were making close to 140HP - Strong tranny, halfshafts, high dome pistons. The block does indeed have 1 stud that is not in the same as Sohc Blocks - If you want to keep the dohc head get this block and build it. I have a GE sleeved one but stripped a headstud. Internals such as crank etc interchange with SOHC Blocks, but if you use anything other than ZC pistons or GX pistons, you will have low comp because the Dohc ZC Head is more volume than all of the SOHC heads.
JDM Sohc ZC Vtec 93-up - Same as the D16Z6 in the US to 1995, and same as d16y8 1996 up.
I will try to take a pic of my GE ZC block next to my new RS sleeved d16Y8 to show the difference. As i have no place to post them, I'll be happy to email them to anyone who asks after tuesday. I have the sohc gaskets that I can put on the ZC to show the difference. IMHO, they are both great blocks. The ZC has the advantage of being able to tune the intake and exhaust separately, whereas the SOHC has VTEC... I am getting rid of my ZC stuff and moving onto sohc vtec turbo...
hondatrix
01-02-2007, 11:14 AM
Yeah I've done it...put out 91kw from a D15B3 with D16A9 DOHC head...I had to weld one bolt hole shut on the head and re-machine it in the correct spot...So it can be done but was not worth the effort as I broke the crank by spinning the D15 to 8100 too many times...:done:
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