DOHC JDM-ZC Help!!

[speedyed]

Thanks to Strudel & Magic Wheels I found my engine block serial code/# on my 1988 Acura Integra. Anyhow it is indeed a ZC-5010553 (from an 1987 Brown Top ZC). Now my confusion with the correct WEB CAMS begin. I have an extra set of Web Cams(#148e grind) from my previous D16A1 motor. Will these cams work on my ZC motor or do I HAVE to have the ZC cams reground? I tried intalling them before but It did not work and I don't know if it was the dumb-ass know it all Acura Tech by not doing the correct valve adjustment or maybe I do need the actual ZC cams regrinded? At the time of the installation we could not understand why the cams did not idle properly because we compared them both(stock ZC & Web Cams D16A1) and they were identical in virtually every way includeing the lobes and markings. This installation madness happened over a year ago and now I'm beginning to remeber the Acura Tech telling me that valves were too loose after the cams were installed and he tighten them as much as possible. Later I find out from other performance shops that the valves are suppost to be a bit loose(6/7 or 7/8 valve adjustment). Anyhow any help will be greatly appreciated

[turbo joe]

148e is just a grind number...they use it for all kinds of mild/street Hondas. I've probably done 50-60 cars with that grind or the 115 cams.

If the D16A1 cams physically fit in your ZC (they should, right?), then that grind will work fine. When they're installed correctly, they should idle really close to stock, depending on how you dial them in.

[strudel]

Ed, Do me a favour and count the number of teeth on your cam gears. There are currently a couple of discussions going on about this elsewhwere. I need to know if your 87 ZC has 40 or 34 teeth???

On another board they figure it is only the 2nd gen ZC that has 34 teeth and that the 1st gen(86-89) has 40 teeth just like the 86-89 D16A1's. That would put an end to the conundrum. Thanks JS

[turbo joe]

As long as you use the proper upper and lower pulley combination so that the cam turns at 1/2 the crankshaft speed, it doesn't matter.

If the D16A1 cam bolts into the ZC, it'll work. The only possible issue would be if the pullies were indexed differently...like if the D16 had the key at 1 o'clock at TDC and the ZC had it at 11 o'clock...or if the pulley snout had a different OD. If it bolts in and looks right, it is right.

Even if the keys were off, you could adjust them.

[strudel]

TurboJoe, Your reply makes perfect sense and I have no dispute with your comments. My goal is to ascertain the correct information in relation to the cam gears so that I don't get lulled into believing someone that doesn't qualify which ZC stuff comes from.

It is rather unfortunate that many people refer to the D16A1 as a ZC and also people who mingle the term ZC blatantly and don't say if it is a first or second generation as there are differences of note between the generations.

As I am trying to compile an accurate data base I would like to find out how many teeth are on the 1st gen Integra ZC's if anyone knows for sure or a picture if they have one.

I do know that the 86-87 and 88-89 have different shaped gears but same teeth number.

Ed, Sorry for semi hijacking your thread!! JS

[turbo joe]

That's cool...Web-Cam is near me and I've known Steve for a long time...if there's some info you need, LMK.

I think calling a D16A1 a ZC, while technically inaccurate, is not anywhere near as silly as calling every non-VTEC B-series an "LS"...LOL

[strudel]

TurboJoe,
Great, if you can do me this following favour that would be great.

I need to find out how many teeth on the cam gears for the following:

1G 86-87 ZC cast cam gear (please confirm) - I know D16A1 is 40T
1G 88-89 ZC stamped cam gear (please confirm) - I know D16A1 is 40T

2G 88-91 ZC cam gear should have 34T - please confirm - same as on the B series.

Thanks, JS

[turbo joe]

I'd be willing to bet that they've never had a ZC cam gear inside the building. :)

When you're grinding a cam, the number of teeth on the gear makes no difference. They index the cam based on either the stock key or the orginal lobe and start grinding...

[strudel]

Turbo Joe, Could they tell you if the keyways are in a different o'clock position as you suggest and I suspect. If that is the case then Speedy Ed should get a set of adjustable cam gears, probably 40 tooth variety, so that the timing can be adjusted to suit. Must be about a 10 degree or so change if the keyways are in a different but close location.

Check this out and you will understand where I am coming from.
Ed this may clear or muddy things up for you as well. JS
http://www.redpepperracing.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6170

[turbo joe]

Basically, it's kinda what I thought. :?

As far as they're concerned, the cams are identical. They don't make a distinction between a ZC and a D16A1. They use the same grinds...and as far as they're concerned they're the same cams.

What they couldn't say was if the cams were indexed the same relative to the factory timing marks, hole or keyway, because they grind based on the original lobe, not the keyway.

Steve actually looked at me funny when I asked him about whether the marks would still line up when the cams are installed correctly...he asked why that would matter...he said to just use adjustable gears and dial them in however you want. I told him I was just relaying a question...LOL

He said that if anyone was having problems getting some of their cams to run right, to give them a call and they could help you to get them dialed in to the proper centers.

I think this answer probably isn't going to quench your thirst for a definitive answer, but they don't really have many cams in stock there, especially for Hondas, because they generally regrind customers' cams.

On the other hand, if someone was to actually degree in a set of ZC cams on a D16A1 or vice-versa, I suspect that you'd have the answer you want once and for all.

[exospeed*com]

OT, but are you the REAL Turbo Joe? :)

[turbo joe]

...that depends on what you mean by "real". http://www.rctech.net/forum/images/smilies/nod.gif