Liberal, Conservative, etc.....

[seano]

This shit is hurting our country. The division, and more importantly the complete lack of respect for one another. It's certainly not how this country was founded.

Why is it that no one can have a debate or discussion without throwing in some shit talking words to the other party? It's cause that person has lost track of their point and only has shit talking left. That person has nothing else intelligent to add to the discussion.

I've run into this a few times... here a couple of times. Someone says something that is rong, they get called on it, and they CANNOT back it up all they can do is call you names. And labels... WOW how people love to use labels. You thik you can pinpoint a person by one fucking word? Well you're dead wrong. Wake up. I am not a conservative, or a liberal, or a hippie. I am not one word that you can use to nail each and every view of mine. The idea of that is RIDICULOUS and every person who uses those terms is ridiculous as well.

If I am for a woman's right to an abortion, it does NOT make me a liberal, or even a left wing guy. If I am for the death penalty, it does not mean I am a Republican, right winger, or conservative.

The 2 party system is a joke. America cannot be divided simply into 2 categories. (Donnie Darko anyone?)

People need to learn to think for themselves. Do you know how many debates I have destroyed people in because they had nothing more to say, and when it came down to it they only thought these things because that's how they were brought up? No actual reasoning, just"well that's what my parents say".

Religion has no place in a political debate.

I don't live in a "blue state", I live in California, part of the United States of America.

I am against the war, but I hope for the safe return of all of our troops, and I do support them in the fact that they are serving our country. I don't need a yellow ribbon to show I respect these people. Just cause I am against this war does not autmomatically make me against our troops. It's not like Bush said "you're either with us or against us." That is ridiculous. The fact is, I currently have a very good friend in EACH branch of the military. 3 in Iraq, one in Cuba currently(the rest here at home). I fully support them and hope for their safe return, and there's not a day that goes by where they don't cross my mind.

I believe in free speech. I believe Fox news is very biased, and not hiding it well. I believe in free press.

I believe the constitution is quite old and should not stay the same as the day it was written. Things change, people change, countries change. You must change with them. I believe it's our responsibility to stay on top of this, and adapt with the changes as appropriate.

We need better control of illegal immigration. We also need to implement some heavy tax laws for the thousands of US companies outsourcing jobs to other countries. We need to spend more money on our problems here at home... education being a top problem. In Oakland the high school dropout rate is 50%. That is amazingly ridiculous, yet Arnold continues taking away the school's money.

more to come probably... just some venting, and conversational topics for anyone who would like to discuss.

[chasloa]

If I am for a woman's right to an abortion, it does NOT make me a liberal, or even a left wing guy. If I am for the death penalty, it does not mean I am a Republican, right winger, or conservative.
liberal belief #1

Religion has no place in a political debate.
liberal belief #2
I believe in free speech. I believe Fox news is very biased, and not hiding it well. I believe in free press.
liberal belief #3
I believe the constitution is quite old and should not stay the same as the day it was written. Things change, people change, countries change. You must change with them. I believe it's our responsibility to stay on top of this, and adapt with the changes as appropriate.
liberal belief #4
We need better control of illegal immigration. We also need to implement some heavy tax laws for the thousands of US companies outsourcing jobs to other countries. We need to spend more money on our problems here at home... education being a top problem. In Oakland the high school dropout rate is 50%. That is amazingly ridiculous, yet Arnold continues taking away the school's money.
#5 and #6
If I am for the death penalty, it does not mean I am a Republican, right winger, or conservative.
Conservative view #1

So let me get this straight.. you don't understand why people put a liberal tag on you when the majority of your beliefs are liberally biased? You seem to be way too concerned over "labeling" and "feelings". Everytime we have a political debate you get way too caught up on these details which actually have nothing to do with the topic being discussed. It gets to the point where you can't see past the stereotypes and just talk about the issue at hand. Realistically people are always going to stereotype. I suggest you get over it and actually worry a bit more about the issues and less about peoples feelings and what might offend them. Generally in my opinion it is a waste of time to worry about what everyone else thinks, what hurts their feelings, etc; because quite honestly its not your problem, its theirs'.

[seano]

Actually every debate you enter with me, all you do is care about labeling. You are the one who doesn't discuss the topics at hand.

You, labeling my "short" written beliefs above is a CLEAR example of someone assuming wrong, or placing THEIR own misguided beliefs onto someone else. You need to get the fuck over soe term that you think can sum up a person. In reality, you don't know me, or exactly where I stand on ANY issue. It's not black and white. Nothing is, and my shirt written views above are not black and white as you would have people believe.

If you want to start with a topic, how about religion? I say it has no place in a debate, which is fact, and you say that is a liberal belief. Please tell me why.

[chasloa]

It's a liberal belief because it s a belief commonly shared among liberals

Obviously no one is 100% lib/cons/whatever, but most tend to sway towards one side more than the other. Some are just in denial over it because they are afraid to use labels to differentiate between opposing viewpoints

[seano]

Well, if there is an isue, and you have a certin belief on that issue, and it happens to coincide with someone elses, that does not mean you are "with" him, or whatever.

It is not a liberal belief, it is mine. Debate it, please.

[makku]

I'll start.. feel free to take an axe to this:

Religion does not belong in a debate about another topic because it has no basis in fact. Debates are won by proving your case, and you can't prove anything using religion.

Let me make this clear: When I say you can't prove anything using religion, I'm talking about the belief system, not the institution. Facts are supported by evidence and there's no evidence to show that your religion is correct. Now you CAN debate religion directly, but honestly there will be never be a winner on the religious side because again, it comes down to beliefs, not fact. (there's no scientific proof in the end)

So because using religion as an argument would bring in assumption, and not fact, it's useless in a debate. You can believe in religion all you want (nothing wrong with that), but to win a debate you need facts.

Now, there's lots of ways to use your religious-based beliefs in a debate, but you have to back them up by methods other than religion. For instance, you can't say "Abortion should be banned because it's wrong according to the Bible".... but you CAN say.. "Abortion should be banned because XX% of Americans surveyed think it should be." That's ok, but still a weak argument IMO. :)

[Wiley Coyote]

Debate it, please.

Hard to debate with the gonzo status isn't it?

[Deck]

I have to say that I tend to harbor some "conservative" beliefs because that is how I was raised, but the more educated I become the more I realize that the system in general is bunk. Civilization as we know it is degrading at an exponential rate, and I see a civil war, or something similar to it, being the climax of these seperatist confrontations. Some of my views are conservative, and some of my views are liberal (excuse the labels), and I like to think that most people are the same way. If you blindly agree with everything the republican or democrat machines spew out, you are part of the problem. I actually hope that there IS a civil war in this country. I am having a hard time putting it into words when Im drunk, but America is entirely too consumption-oriented. We are going to be the downfall of ourselves. It WILL happen. Peak oil has been reached. Our entire society/culture/economy is reliant on fossil fuels. When fossil fuels become so scarce their prices become astronomical (it will happen in our lifetime), we will have to become more centralized. We will become more reliant on our neighbors....forget people on the other side of the country - let alone the other side of the world, and republican/democrat political affiliations will seem so trivial......

[makku]

wait until the dollar crashes in the next couple of months...

and the real estate boom dies because people will be foreclosing on their new homes because they can't afford the mortgages anymore...

and gas prices go through the roof, affecting more than just our cars, but shipping prices, airline prices, everything...

utter chaos!

I think the liberal/conservative crap is going to get worse. Right now the "conservatives" have the finger-pointing power... but I bet the "liberals" will be getting it by next year. I think it will be just as bad...

stock tip for everyone: Buy some chinese currency! when the dollar crashes, chinese currency is finally going to get revalued and will be worth TONS.

[flatfourfan]

The sad part is............what happens in the states affects everyone in the world. Especially 3rd world contries........like africa.

[rotory20]

Ive been waiting to be able to use this one..lol
http://unix.rulez.org/~calver/pictures/arguing.jpg

[icarusdown]

About the chinese currency...
We are their no. 1 trading partner (Actually, WalMart is their no. 1 trading partner, but they're a US multinational...)
The Chinese have been floating the value of the US dollar for years so that we can continue to buy lots and lots of plastic trinkets and t-shirts from them. Their banks are buying up all the dollars and holding them in reserve so there is never a market excess, which would devalue our currency. However, they can not, under any circumstances, hold this up forever. Eventually, they will have to release those billions of dollars that have been temporarily removed from the system. As a result, the world market will be flooded with previously unavailable dollars and we will suffer from massive inflation. On top of that, since we have no significant exports anymore - aside from jobs - we will be fucked. I can't say how soon, but probably within the next five years.
On top of that, OPEC has been seriously contemplating switching to the Euro as their official currency for purchases meaning that we have one less major trade partner who might be willing to float our currency.
Anyhow, it'll be interesting. Hopefully Washington won't go completely pshycho on the rest of the world trying to maintain hegemony.

-ic