Iraq war leads to capture of more terrorists

[jb2178]

For all you doubters: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/24/iraq.main/index.html

Where would these guys have been if we hadn't invaded iraq? Probably around the world bombing US embasies and killing other innocents... it's not all about US gain - it's about catching the bad guys and using their own backyard as the place to do it instead of US (or US allies) soil.

[gftgrill]

I know, every complained about us going there. but if we hadn't and there were more attacks against us. then people would complain about us not going.

people just like to find any reason what-so-ever to complain about the US.

ps. I want to clarify that I know it's not over and I'm not saying it is in anyway.

[jb2178]

Exactly - it's a mess no doubt and it's not good for the Iraqi's to have all this going on over there but it's better then Saddam and it's better then trying to fight these fuckers in 40 different countries, they came to us once they saw what we were trying to do - I just pray it all works...

[Blanco]

The Iraq war was started over WMD. It was then spun into Saddam's possible links to Osama bin Laden. Then spun into liberating a country.

It's no secret that radical Muslims from the entire region are joining the fight against the Christian occupation. That is how they view it, remember that this is a "holy war" for radical Muslims. It only makes sense that terrorists will now be captured. Oh and don't forget that terrorists didn't exist in Iraq, other than Saddam's government, until the U.S. led occupation. I've always been a firm believer in this phrase, "the ends do not justify the means".

[jb2178]

Well the government was filled with terrorists so I guess it all depends on your point of view...

[makku]

I'm on the fence about the Iraq war....

but one thing I'm glad about is that it's tied up our forces so we can't attack Iran or N. Korea. They have nuclear capabilities... scary thought.

[Blanco]

I'm on the fence about the Iraq war....

but one thing I'm glad about is that it's tied up our forces so we can't attack Iran or N. Korea. They have nuclear capabilities... scary thought.

:werd:

Saddam definitely needed to come down, but I feel that this was completely the wrong way to go about it.

And the other two contries are what really concern me. Nuclear bombs do a lot more damage than farsicle biological weapons.

[DOG]

I'm so fucking sick of this shit!!!

[rotory20]

:werd:

Saddam definitely needed to come down, but I feel that this was completely the wrong way to go about it.

And the other two contries are what really concern me. Nuclear bombs do a lot more damage than farsicle biological weapons.
Uh...no not true..
Bio and chem weapons are Much more dangerous than any nuclear ones..
I have first hand experience....
And there are a lot of things that people dont know...
First of all bio and chem are les devastating to property but any living thing is done...and another is a bio/chem weapon can be made for less than 100$ in any crazed SOBs basement!! All of the political right wing people are the reason that nobody has the balls anymore..I say kill em all and those that want to conform let them..
I hate everyone equally. Been there done that, I want to see some of you 18-25 year olds who still live in the same place you grew up with your attitudes of We shouldn't do this or that..Until you put on an equivilant uniform I dont want to hear a damn word!!
Ok no more soap box..

[Rexinre]

I'm so fucking sick of this shit!!!
Whats that DOG?

[DOG]

There wont be peace in the mid-east ever. This nation building is bullshit.

[Rexinre]

Thats what they said about Germany, Russia and Kuwait. Give it time, eventually there will be order.

[chasloa]

Oh and don't forget that terrorists didn't exist in Iraq, other than Saddam's government, until the U.S. led occupation .

How can you say that they didn't exist until we made our way over there? Just because they weren't bombing themselves, and were not active in THEIR country doesnt' mean they weren't present. You said it yourself the Iraqi government were terrorists.. you dont think they harbored and aided terrorists? haha good one
Saddam definitely needed to come down, but I feel that this was completely the wrong way to go about it.

So what's your master plan? Ask him politely and expect him to turn over power and let us arrest him?

We all know war sucks. Unfortanately we have to pick our poison. Personally I'd rather die taking action then sit here, pretend nothing is wrong, and get blow to smitherines

[Blanco]

Uh...no not true..
Bio and chem weapons are Much more dangerous than any nuclear ones..
I have first hand experience....
And there are a lot of things that people dont know...
First of all bio and chem are les devastating to property but any living thing is done...and another is a bio/chem weapon can be made for less than 100$ in any crazed SOBs basement!! All of the political right wing people are the reason that nobody has the balls anymore..I say kill em all and those that want to conform let them..
I hate everyone equally. Been there done that, I want to see some of you 18-25 year olds who still live in the same place you grew up with your attitudes of We shouldn't do this or that..Until you put on an equivilant uniform I dont want to hear a damn word!!
Ok no more soap box..

You might want to check out what happened at Chernobyl, then tell say the biological weapons are more dangerous. It's going to literally be thousands of years before that land is usable. An ICBM has enough power to take out most of of New York State. Crazy men with nukes > Crazy men with gas.

I spent the first 11 years of my life on Beale A.F.B., California and my father retired as an E-10. I've seen first hand how lovely the military life is, thank you but no thank you. I actually passed on my free ride to the Air Force Acedamy because I chose to live my own life instead of being told what to do and when to do it. I have respect for those who do choose that path, but it's you don't deserve any more praise or worship than a police officer. Police officers risk their lives every hour of every day that they're on duty, not just when some slim lipped idgit decides he wants to one-up daddy. You already get everything you derserve from the American public, your paychecks come from our tax dollars.

If I sound cold and calused it's because I'm just about fed up with prentious public servents telling me that I don't have my Constitutional right to question my government and voice my opinions about it, simply because I chose a different path in life. And that has nothing to do with this privately owned website or any other single site, it's every site I go to and even in person. You're public servents not superheros and your military service doesn't entitle you to any Constitutional rights above a civillian. Until you realize that, I don't want to hear a damn word out of you other than "Sir, yes sir". Oh, and I'm just a little above that 18-25 age bracket and I don't live in the same place that I grew up. ;-)

How can you say that they didn't exist until we made our way over there? Just because they weren't bombing themselves, and were not active in THEIR country doesnt' mean they weren't present. You said it yourself the Iraqi government were terrorists.. you dont think they harbored and aided terrorists? haha good one

So what's your master plan? Ask him politely and expect him to turn over power and let us arrest him?

We all know war sucks. Unfortanately we have to pick our poison. Personally I'd rather die taking action then sit here, pretend nothing is wrong, and get blow to smitherines

The links of Saddam government aiding terrorist was disproved quite a long time ago, I'm suprised that you're still holding onto it. Yes, there is no doubt what so ever that before our illegal invasin of the Sovereign State of Iraq, the government was the only source of terrorism...to its own people. There was nothing like the PLO or even the IRA, that happened after the occupation. We created the current terrorist state in Iraq with our continued presence, arrogance, and ultimatums. We created the new rallying point for radical Muslims to meet "The Infidel" head on. We created the now common terrorist attacks.

Saddam had no WMDs and hadn't had any since 1994, much like those bumbling fools over at the U.N. had already been saying for years. No valid reason for the pre-emptive. Saddam had no ties to Osama bin Laden, the Taliban, or Al-Qaida. No reason for the pre-emptive, or this spin-off reason. Which leads to no valid reason to be liberating the country due to an invalid pre-emptive strike. Since you're asking me to play armchair President, my plan would've been to use my brain and go after the real threats to world peace, instead of becoming one of them. It comes as a shock to Americans, but the world community doesn't think very highly of us thanks to li'l Georgie and his antics.

Again, there was no threat from Iraq. I would rather die fighting than kneeling any day of any week, that's why I've been studying martial arts for 20 years. And as such, I pick my fights wisely. I only choose those that need to be fought, not those that would indulge my pride and ego. There was no reason to start the war with Iraq when there were other things that needed attending to. My signature might offer a little insight into my views or you can try www.soobahkdo.com.

[D15VtecLessCr-x]

Blanco you poise a very interesting agrument... or should i say... point. Becuase i chose to follow the lead of your father, I am now faced with the fact that I, myself will be going to "fight" the war on terrorism. I too believe that this war should have been over a long time ago, but the pentagon is continuing the pointlessness of this "war" indefinantly, and there is absolutely nothing that you as a civilian or me as a military member can do or say about it. Yes it is my Job to fight for your freedom... and for that I am proud to do.

[chasloa]

Blanco,

I don't recall this being disproved: http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/congress/2004_rpt/iraq-wmd-intell_chapter12-g.htm


G. CIA Assessments on Iraq's Links to Terrorism

(U) In Iraqi Support for Terrorism, the CIA provided the following summary: Iraq continues to be a safehaven, transit point, or operational node for groups and individuals who direct violence against the United States, Israel, and other allies. Iraq has a long history of supporting terrorism. During the last four decades, it has altered its targets to reflect changing priorities and goals. It continues to harbor and sustain a number of smaller anti-Israel terrorist groups and to actively encourage violence against Israel. Regarding the Iraq-al-Qaida relationship, reporting from sources of varying reliability points to a number of contacts, incidents of training, and discussions of Iraqi safehaven for Usama bin Ladin and his organization dating from the early 1990s.



(U) To arrive at this summary, the CIA examined intelligence in four main areas: Terrorist activities conducted by the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS);
Iraqi support for terrorist activities conducted by regional terrorist groups;
<LI>Iraqi contacts with al-Qaida; and, potential Iraqi use of terrorism in the event of a war with the United States. (U) The CIA produced several key assessments based on its examination of the available intelligence. The Committee reviewed the assessments, any prior assessments on these topics, and the intelligence reports underlying the assessments. The following sections set forth the "key" assessments, discuss the underlying intelligence, discuss any variance from prior CIA assessments, and examine the accuracy, objectivity, independence, and reasonableness of the assessments found in Iraqi Support for Terrorism, January 2003.

Please show me where you found this proof that absolutely NO terrorism existed in Iraq?

You saying that this country caused terrorism is absolutely dispicable.

Futhermore how can you make the claim that Iraq has had no WMDs since 1994? You are aware that he wasn't cooperating with inspectors so we have no real way to know whether they had them or not.

Then again this all should have been taken care of about ten years ago, but our president was too busy getting blowjobs and lying under oath to acknowledge the problems that existed.

[mikeD16Z6]

Rexinre I hope you’re right about Iraq stabilizing, I really do.
But I think you may be comparing apples and oranges. It’s just not the same situation that there was at the end of WWII. In WWII there was a formal treaty to end the war, the army was not dissolved, and there were not the same security issues that we face today in Iraq. After WWII it still took over 10 years to bring normalcy to Germany and Japan. I don’t see how we can get the job done any faster considering the circumstances.

I have absolutely no pity for the insurgents, but put yourself in their position. Imagine the Chinese army marching down your street. How would you react to that? I don’t know about you but I would be the first person to take pop shots at them with my kalachnikoff.

[Rexinre]

Rexinre I hope you’re right about Iraq stabilizing, I really do.
But I think you may be comparing apples and oranges. It’s just not the same situation that there was at the end of WWII. In WWII there was a formal treaty to end the war, the army was not dissolved, and there were not the same security issues that we face today in Iraq. After WWII it still took over 10 years to bring normalcy to Germany and Japan. I don’t see how we can get the job done any faster considering the circumstances.

I have absolutely no pity for the insurgents, but put yourself in their position. Imagine the Chinese army marching down your street. How would you react to that? I don’t know about you but I would be the first person to take pop shots at them with my kalachnikoff.

Only time will tell my friend... only time will tell.

On another note. 80% of Iraq's people want these elections and order in the form of a democracy.

I do think it will happen in time.

[mikeD16Z6]

80% of Iraq's people want these elections and order in the form of a democracy.

I do think it will happen in time.

Thanks bro, that does make me feel a little better about the whole thing.

[gftgrill]

...

Saddam definitely needed to come down, but I feel that this was completely the wrong way to go about it.


So what's your master plan? Ask him politely and expect him to turn over power and let us arrest him?...

um didn't we do that? He went underground into hiding.

[jb2178]

And then today: Iraq: Al-Zarqawi lieutenants arrested

(CNN) -- As Iraqi expatriates in countries around the globe began voting Friday morning in the first democratic elections in almost 50 years, an Iraqi official said two "important leading members" of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's terrorist group had been arrested.

The arrests were announced by Kasim Daoud, the country's minister of state for national security. Daoud said one of those arrested was in charge of the al-Zarqawi group's Baghdad operations.

The arrests came on January 17 and on Thursday, but Daoud said he did not want to announce them until after campaigning for elections had ended to avoid "misleading conclusions."

Al-Zarqawi's group has claimed responsibility for numerous car bombings, kidnappings and beheadings in Iraq.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/28/iraq.main/index.html

And this weekend they will be voting - fuck it, that's what this has all been about as far as I'm concerned. With there being a real chance for peace between isreal and palistine if the Iraqi's can possibly setup a democracy in their country it could be the beginning of a GREAT thing in that region and in the end, if it happens, it will make free countries of the world safer.

[Rexinre]

Great find... PR4U.

[makku]

Uh...no not true..
Bio and chem weapons are Much more dangerous than any nuclear ones..
I have first hand experience....
And there are a lot of things that people dont know...
First of all bio and chem are les devastating to property but any living thing is done...and another is a bio/chem weapon can be made for less than 100$ in any crazed SOBs basement!! All of the political right wing people are the reason that nobody has the balls anymore..I say kill em all and those that want to conform let them..
I hate everyone equally. Been there done that, I want to see some of you 18-25 year olds who still live in the same place you grew up with your attitudes of We shouldn't do this or that..Until you put on an equivilant uniform I dont want to hear a damn word!!
Ok no more soap box..

interesting... chem/bio weapons are pretty damn dangerous too. A bio weapon would be the easiest thing to bring into this country... a suicide "bomber" would just have to infect himself with something deadly and then just take a plane ride here full of americans. Infect them all and send them about their way... when the gov't catches wind of what's happening it may be too late to stop the spread.

I haven't served in any armed forces, BUT working at my current job, I've had a really interesting look into the Pentagon side of this equation. Haha... nothing I can talk about though... classified reports are still classified ;) But it really makes you realize what is just politics and what is the truth. And some of those reports concerning the future really scare me.

At work, we actually get a pentagon news feed they call the Early Bird which is a daily compilation of all major news articles concerning war, iraq, military services, etc into one list. Keeps me pretty well informed I would say...

Was it good to get rid of Saddam? of course.... it's the big picture I'm worried about. Not that I care so much about what our allies think, but I'm concerned with the new war momentum this has put us through... who is next? Someone WILL be next... soon.

(btw, bio weapons are too hard to handle... unless it's already made and packaged, then the only way to release it is by the way I mentioned above. No terrorist is going to be able to make a bioweapon on his own. As for chemical weapons, sure, it's not super hard to make something like mustard gas, but how are you going to get it over here? not many countries have ICBMs... they have missles, but none really can travel across the world to the US... unless they bought/stole some from the russians. As for anything more complicated... I doubt it. My lab-mates and I made a very close facsimile of VX gas in a lab once (for research) and it was incredibly hard to do. Big quantities... no, not without major gov't sponsorship.)

[kommon_sense]

Only time will tell my friend... only time will tell.

On another note. 80% of Iraq's people want these elections and order in the form of a democracy.

I do think it will happen in time.

I hope that you are right, but that is just wishful thinking. I stopped watching the US News coverage of the "war" efforts. Only outside sources like the BBC give you any real insite into what is going on.

I think that we went into Iraq under false pretenses and if any other country in the world had done the same thing to one of our "allies" we would have been among the first to rally against the invaders.

If this "war" was really about terrorism then we would have Osama Bin Laden behind bars instead of Saddam Hussein... Instead Osama was on television just days before the election. Does anyone even remember the last time that they heard of Osama or Al Queada being discussed on the news? Those are the terrorists that attacked us right? The Bush administration announced a long time ago that there were no links to the Iraqi people and Al Queda (sp?) even though that was one of the reasons that they gave for going into Iraq.

Anyone notice that the states NY and PA which were actually hit by 9/11 didn't vote for Bush?

Also as far as finding more terrorists in Iraq. As Blanco pointed out, to Muslims, this is a Holy War and the US is the infidels (sp?). *WE* have created a terrorist breeding ground by invading a Muslim country. So as long as *we* are there, *terrorists* will be there. We have given them a front to fight on...

And don't get me started on the treatment of our troops. You constantly hear horror stories of shortages of ammo, *unarmored* vehicles, troops without protective armor, etc... I understand that the troops are doing their duty. My problem is where our countries leadership is taking them...

I guess that is my rant for the day.

[mikeD16Z6]

Anyone notice that the states NY and PA which were actually hit by 9/11 didn't vote for Bush?



Word...
And I lost 3 friends in the WTC. One of whom I've known since elementary school.

[juice91si]

i agree that other countries have a little better insight to the war, cnn tends to mislead.

Did anyone see 60 minutes last week???
the one where they showed soldiers driving down the main strip (rt. michigan they called it) and they do it a few times a day to show prescence. the insurgents know theyre coming, so they plant bombs on the side of the road. sure enough, one went off while they were filming, destroying the the humvee in front of them. the army continues to do this every day. they then spoke to an iraqui journalist who was embedded with insugents, he even had video of them planting the bombs. it's like shooting fish in a barrell!!
something is wrong here.

elections are gonna be a bitch. the candidates are being killed, along with their family members. no one wants to run for election because they are afraid for their life. there is no way to spread information to voters, the voters dont wanna vote. some muslims are preaching to boycott the elections, if they do take place, i dont think they will go smoothly at all.
even iraqui soldiers are wearing balaclava's to disguise their identity to protect their families.

*zips up flame suit*

[kommon_sense]

One thing that our leadership has shown is that they don't understand how the Middle East works. You can't force democracy on people who don't want it. Did these people like living under Saddam? Surely not, but has been quite obvious that they don't want what we are pushing either.

[Rexinre]

I dono kommon, its seems to me and everyone else I talk to over there that it is what they want. Sure there are some that don't but the experts say that 80% of the people are going to vote on Sunday... That seems to tell you something.

[kommon_sense]

I hope you are right. The sooner we can get out of this mess the better... But we broke it, so we have got to do the best we can to fix it...

[jb2178]

Well it happened and they said the turn out was better then expected - preliminary estimates had it at 72% of those eligible had voted... :TU: let's just hope and pray it helps...

in other news:
(CNN) -- Kuwaiti security forces Monday arrested the "leader of a terrorist cell" and killed four Islamic militants in a firefight south of Kuwait City, a top Kuwaiti security source told CNN.

One Kuwaiti national guard was also killed and five security men were wounded -- one of them critically.

According to the source, Amer Khulaif al-Enezi, the cell leader was captured along with five other militants, following a fierce gunbattle in the suburb of Mubarak al-Kabeer.

His brother, Nasser al-Enezi, was taken into custody Sunday after a similar battle with security forces.

The Kuwait News Agency trumpeted the announcement, quoting another security source, who said the terror cell had been "completely crushed."

The firefight began after Kuwaiti forces responded to a tip that said Islamic militants were hiding in a villa south of Kuwait City.

Residents reported hearing gunfire and loud explosions -- starting around 7 a.m. (11 p.m. ET Sunday) -- and had been told to stay in their homes.

It was the second straight day Kuwaiti security forces had battled militants.

Sunday's confrontation in eastern Kuwait City left a security force member, a militant and a Bahraini national dead, a Kuwaiti Interior Ministry official told CNN.

[Blanco]

Terrorism emerged as a threat to Iraq's people not long after the invasion of 2003. Al Qaeda now has a presence in the country, in the form of several terrorist groups led by Abu Musab Al Zarqawi. Many foreign fighters and former Baath Party officials have also joined the insurgency, which is mainly aimed at attacking American forces and Iraqis who work wih them. The most dangerous insurgent area is the Sunni Triangle, a mostly Sunni-Muslim area just north of Baghdad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iraq

[kommon_sense]

Listening to internet radio right now. They are talking about how military benefits to solders in combat have been cut yet again. Hopefully I can tell this correctly... Seperation pay went from $250 to $100. Combat pay went down as well... Gotta love the way our solders are being taken care of :(

[jb2178]

but they are also talking about giving more omney to families of killed personel... which is a good thing: http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/02/01/death.benefits.ap/index.html

[chasloa]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iraq
I just noticed you're from Northern California.

And to think I took you seriously

haha

[Rexinre]

Listening to internet radio right now. They are talking about how military benefits to solders in combat have been cut yet again. Hopefully I can tell this correctly... Seperation pay went from $250 to $100. Combat pay went down as well... Gotta love the way our solders are being taken care of :(

I hope that doesn't happen... it wouldn't make any sense espically when we just got the biggest raise in military history! We shall see what happens, but stuff like this hurts the soldiers directly.

[Blanco]

I just noticed you're from Northern California.

And to think I took you seriously

haha

How sweet, good thing I've never taken you seriously. And you live in Ohio dude, you don't have shit to talk about. Now, either leave the personal attacks out of it and stick to the topic, or piss off.

[chasloa]

I'll piss off thanks

[kommon_sense]

but they are also talking about giving more omney to families of killed personel... which is a good thing: http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/02/01/death.benefits.ap/index.html

I understand what you are saying, but by this point, the compensation is coming a little late...

[jb2178]

Did you guys see this?
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/02/01/iraq.hostage/index.html

my god - I really hope they are getting as desperate as this makes it seem...

[kommon_sense]

CNN gives poor coverage of what is going on. Gotta go BBC if you want accurate news.

This was very encouraging : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4224435.stm

This however was not :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4229355.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/file_on_4/4216853.stm

[makku]

well, the shit will hit the fan again when the Kurds try to separate themselves from Iraq. They're doing it somewhat peacefully right now, but if Iraq's gov't ignores them, you can bet there will be more fighting. Also, the city of Kirkuk (sp?) is disputed... lot of Kurds there but also others...

[jb2178]

CNN gives poor coverage of what is going on. Gotta go BBC if you want accurate news.

This was very encouraging : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4224435.stm

This however was not :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4229355.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/file_on_4/4216853.stm

Well yeah, I have a hard time taking what any media source says as "truth" since they are all so skewed by one political system or another...

the bit about the Sunnis calling the election illegitimate is retarded as far as I'm concerned, they decided to boycott it, nobody made them. Sure they don'ot want us there but just because I didn't want either bush or kerry to win and I boycotted our election doesn't mean I'm going to call it illegitimate... eh, what are you gonna do...

[Blanco]

Well yeah, I have a hard time taking what any media source says as "truth" since they are all so skewed by one political system or another...

the bit about the Sunnis calling the election illegitimate is retarded as far as I'm concerned, they decided to boycott it, nobody made them. Sure they don'ot want us there but just because I didn't want either bush or kerry to win and I boycotted our election doesn't mean I'm going to call it illegitimate... eh, what are you gonna do...

Just a point, you also grew up in a democratic society from day one. These people are having it shoved down their throats. Not that I'm defending it in any way, shape or form, I can just see where they're coming from.

[jb2178]

Just a point, you also grew up in a democratic society from day one. These people are having it shoved down their throats. Not that I'm defending it in any way, shape or form, I can just see where they're coming from.

Well what do they want then? How can we possibly make them happy? The simple fact is we can't, the only group who was happy before were the bathists - now we've gone in and made a mess but that mess is far better then this very select minority ruling the majority with military force and mustard gas, so we've done what we can which is give the WHOLE country a chance to decide it's knew leaders - but they decided not to play. They decided to sit on the side and pout. Now that 60%+ of the iraqi people have voted they decide to stand up and call it illagitamate?

The simple fact is they are so pissed off that we had to go in and free them from saddam that they refuse to look at how much better they can make their own lives. They just as soon sit around and bitch about being occupied - even though I've never heard of an occupying military "allow" free elections in the country they took over. As soon as they are capable of taking control we'll leave but not until they tell us to...

You can't please everyone all the time, and this is a prime example... part of me wishes we could put saddam back in power over those assholes and let him kick their ass just like the old days, maybe then they might be a bit grateful. I'm not after gratitude I just want them to do what they need to do so we can be done with it and as long as they continue to block the system from taking hold they're just making it harder for us to finish the job and get out...

[calboi510]

you know what's whack, my bro is in the military and had to undergo surgery from injury, and the military didn't even pay shit for the surgery, he got injured while in training, where's all the billions of dollars that bush had asked for to fight this war?

how come the hummers arent properly armored? where's all this money going to? what bothers me is that over here in california a lot of the schools budget is being cut, but billions of dollars are going to this war.

and i dont see how someone from ohio can be flaming someone from california just because we are from california...that shows some intelligence.

[chasloa]

what kind of intelligence does it show? That I know the political climate of Northern California?

[makku]

hooah... wait until we go to war with Iran. Say hello to $3-4 per gallon for gas!

Why? Look at a map... the Strait of Hormuz is the world's biggest choke point for oil transportation. And Iran has complete control over it... they just have to mine that area and say bye bye to gas prices.
http://www.iags.org/oiltransport.html


Heh, I just found another reason why Iranians hate us. I think this war is going to happen... especially with their recent vow of not giving up their nuclear program. Sigh...

On July 3, 1988, the Strait of Hormuz was site of one of the most controversial tragedies in aviation history: Iran Air Flight 655, an Airbus A300 medium-sized passenger jet was shot down by the United States Navy cruiser, USS Vincennes (CG-49). All 290 on board (including 66 children) were killed, while Captain Rogers, the Vincennes' commander, was awarded (by George H. W. Bush in 1990) the Legion of Merit award. An international situation was barely avoided, as the American president George H. W. Bush said "I will never apologise for what Americans do", the Iranian president vowed revenge on the Americans. There is still lingering controversy about the events of this tragedy.

[Rexinre]

you know what's whack, my bro is in the military and had to undergo surgery from injury, and the military didn't even pay shit for the surgery, he got injured while in training, where's all the billions of dollars that bush had asked for to fight this war? I think one of 2 things are going on here... One, you are lying or Two, you don't know the whole story. I have been in the Army for 8 years and never seen anyone get hurt during training where the military hasn't picked up the tab. Unless it was a reoccurring injury from something that the soldier never disclosed to the military.

how come the hummers arent properly armored? where's all this money going to? what bothers me is that over here in california a lot of the schools budget is being cut, but billions of dollars are going to this war. Hummers that are CONUS are not armored because it doesn't make any sense, no conflict here. However, if there are unarmored HMMVEES overseas in Iraq or Afganastan then show me proof, otherwise shut your mouth. School budgets have to do with that state, so see your congress person or governer. Billions of dollars are going to the war, and we are winning. :)

and i dont see how someone from ohio can be flaming someone from california just because we are from california...that shows some intelligence. This is a debate, no one is flaming... just relax.

[jb2178]

hooah... wait until we go to war with Iran. Say hello to $3-4 per gallon for gas!

Why? Look at a map... the Strait of Hormuz is the world's biggest choke point for oil transportation. And Iran has complete control over it... they just have to mine that area and say bye bye to gas prices.
http://www.iags.org/oiltransport.html


Heh, I just found another reason why Iranians hate us. I think this war is going to happen... especially with their recent vow of not giving up their nuclear program. Sigh...

On July 3, 1988, the Strait of Hormuz was site of one of the most controversial tragedies in aviation history: Iran Air Flight 655, an Airbus A300 medium-sized passenger jet was shot down by the United States Navy cruiser, USS Vincennes (CG-49). All 290 on board (including 66 children) were killed, while Captain Rogers, the Vincennes' commander, was awarded (by George H. W. Bush in 1990) the Legion of Merit award. An international situation was barely avoided, as the American president George H. W. Bush said "I will never apologise for what Americans do", the Iranian president vowed revenge on the Americans. There is still lingering controversy about the events of this tragedy.

I really hope you're wrong but if that's how it goes then that's how it goes. I think there's lots of talk about Iran and war just like there was lots of talk about North Korea and war but I also think there's also lots of talk about Iran and diplomatic paths... just like north korea - I know everbody thinks ol' W is war happy but I honestly believe we went into this war to chase down terrorists when they ran and hid under saddams arm and then there's the WMD thing which we were obviously mislead on (sure we should have done more intelligence but hind sight is always 20/20) by people in Iraq who wanted saddam out for personal gains. I don't think Iran or Korea will be repeats of Iraq and if they are the American people (myself included) would be pretty upset about it...
-------------
LONDON, England (CNN) -- U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Friday that an attack on Iran over its nuclear program is "not on the agenda at this point."

"We have many diplomatic tools still at our disposal and we intend to pursue them fully," Rice told a news conference after a meeting with British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw.
-------------

[mikeD16Z6]

If we went to war with Iran or N. Korea it wont be anything like Iraq. Iraq's army barely put up a serious fight. Iran has a well trained, armed, and motivated army and will fight to the death. Even if it dosent go nuclear I think we will suffer huge losses. In the end we will prevail, but not without serious losses.

[makku]

-------------
LONDON, England (CNN) -- U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Friday that an attack on Iran over its nuclear program is "not on the agenda at this point."

"We have many diplomatic tools still at our disposal and we intend to pursue them fully," Rice told a news conference after a meeting with British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw.
-------------

yeah? contrast with the article below... it will happen eventually

New York Times
February 4, 2005
Pg. 1

Rice Says U.S. Won't Aid Europe On Plans For Incentives To Iran

By Steven R. Weisman, Elaine Sciolino and David E. Sanger

LONDON, Feb. 3 - Less than a day after President Bush declared he was "working with European allies" to persuade Iran to give up its nuclear program, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said the United States would continue to rebuff European requests to participate directly in offering incentives for Iran to drop what is suspected of being a nuclear arms program.

Opening her first overseas trip as secretary, Ms. Rice also declared that the Tehran government's record on human rights was "something to be loathed" - a harsh comment that comes at a time when many European leaders have asked the United States to help lower tensions with Iran.
<snip>

[mikeD16Z6]

Condoleezza Rice said the United States would continue to rebuff European requests to participate directly in offering incentives for Iran to drop what is suspected of being a nuclear arms program.



What would we have to gain by doing this?

Because of their human rights record?
We do business with the Saudis and China and their records arent the best either.

[makku]

I don't really see what other options the U.S. has for dealing with Iran's nuclear program. Do they expect Iran to stop because we say so? Europe is trying to take the diplomatic way out... sure, it's appeasement but what else is there? Does the U.S. really want things to get so bad that there'll be another war?

I think maybe the U.S. wants Iran to reach a certain milestone in their nuclear program so that the U.S. will have definite proof of WMD when they attack Iran :)

[mikeD16Z6]

I think maybe the U.S. wants Iran to reach a certain milestone in their nuclear program so that the U.S. will have definite proof of WMD when they attack Iran :)

I hope they dont let it get to the point where they have a functional weapon by the time we attack them, because they will use it, on us and Israel.

Personally I would be more concerned about their missile programs. What good is a nuclear weapon if you cant deliver it? There is a big difference in the destructive power between a nuke detonated 1500 feet above the ground compared to one detonated in a shipping container or whatever.

Perhaps they would give up their nuclear program if they didn't feel so threatened by us.

[S Q A D]

man what the hell :?

US politics are fucking retarded

Im moving to Italy ... fuck this bullshit

[mikeD16Z6]

Move to Holland
Legal weed and hookers. ;)