Turbo FAQ

[Sonny7730]

Alright, I've seen a lot of questions lately with simple turbo questions, and I'm extremely bored, so I figured why not do a little FAQ and see if I can answer some of these questions. I will run through parts, set-up, installation, and trouble-shooting with all the little things you might forget or miss. So here goes.

What do I need to do to be prepared for boosting?
Well, It depends how much boost you're going to run. Are you going to go for fastest D in america, or a daily driver with a bit of pep??? No matter what engine you boost, some things you want to make sure are in good order are your fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, oil condition (which shoud be checked regularly anyways) belts, and other mechanical parts. Just make sure the engine is in good working order before you put more stress on it. Make sure your ignition system is up to par for the boost. You can use the honda oem system, which is actually recommended. Except for spark plugs, which will be covered later. Make sure the head is in good working order, such as gasket, valves, even seals if you so feel. for the block, a compression test and leakdown test will greatly help you get prepared for boost. These are obviously not vital, but extremely important if you want extended engine life. some are more important than others, depending on engine life.

Alright, my engine is pristine, what parts do I need to be turbo?
This will be split into several sections, by parts.
engine: you can turbo any honda engine. but some are better than others. The best to turbo are the z6 and y8 because of the rod strengths. These can handle up to ABOUT (not a precise number, just a give-or-take) 200whp. you can turbo the a6, the d15b2, the jdm d15b, the sohc zc, the dohc zc, etc. best bet is to find out how much boost your engine can handle stock before boosting it. about 160 whp is a good place to start on any engine. (and if there's any arguments against this, please pm me and I will look into it:)) I'm most familiar with the y8 and z6, so most of my numbers will be in relation to those engines.
turbo: So now that you have your engine chosen, you have to choose a turbo. what's right for me? what's too small? what's too big? Some popular turbos are the t3, the t25/t28, and the t3/t4. you can run mitsu turbos such as the 15g and things like that, which are also popular. the 15g, 14b, 16g and the like are a good economical way to boost your baby. if you're looking for a nice daily driver, without huge whp goals, go with a t3 which can be found on saabs, volvos, and bought brand spankin' new. t3/t4 turbos are good for those bigger whp goals, and the guys who want to be big names in the world of cars. or if you want to whoop some serious ass on saturday nights. if this is your first turbo, and you're not sure you want to do a homemade kit, go with the edelbrock kit or the greddy kit. the edelbrock is the most complete out there, and won't steer you wrong. for a smaller price, but not lesser quality (only fewer parts) you can go with greddy. either kit will get you some nice power. to find turbos, or kits, look around on ebay, classifieds, or if you want new, go to sites like homemadeturbo.com and find a good dealer.
manifold: now that you have your turbo, it's time to find a manifold. You can go several ways, do a cheap cx/hx manifold set-up, where you merely cut it and adapt a flange to it. you can buy a manifold such as the ssautochrome manifold, get it re-welded with supports and better welds, although I don't know how much i personally trust this route. You can go with a cc-fab manifold: I actually ordered one myself. Another choice is to order a manifold kit from I believe bmcrace, and have a local shop weld it together for you, Or you can go full out, and get a lovefab set up, or other serious contenders such as hks, and the likes. I'm not too familiar with obx, but I have heard some horror stories from those. I would suggest stay with what is popular, because in the car world, most of the time it's popular for a reason. a good place to look for these are in classifieds, and on ebay. on ebay, be careful what you buy. if it's too good to be true, it probably is.
piping: this can be the most difficult buy of the turbo kit. I was lucky enough to find someone selling them. Otherwise you can find these on jcwhitney.com, or can get them custom made various places. Sizing can vary, but IMO a 2.25-2.50 diameter piping will do the work you need to get the job done. here's what you might want for bends:
1 Ubend preferably a tight bend with a radius of 3-4"
you need: 1 45º (for the throttle body)
4 90º #1 coming off the intercooler passenger side to the fender well, #2 to make an upwards turn through the frame hole (stock airbox hole) #3 to turn towards the throttle body and #4 off the "U" bend to the turbine outlet.
If you want to get fancy like I did get 2 extra 3" 45º for the turbine inlet/air filter mount. It sets up like a greddy inlet s pipe. I also recommend Ubendman. Excellent prices for mandrel bent pipe. Email RDelat2116@aol.com for a price quote. [thank you bizzar for these pipe selections!]
intercooler: by far, my best suggestion is johnnyracecar.com . these intercoolers are well made, and cheap due to the fact he's producing them in mass, not by order. you can get used intercoolers and such online, but be careful by the age, and condition. if it's too beat up, it won't be able to hold boost and become very insufficient. a johnnyracecar 5" or 6" will work with a fun daily driver, or even a car putting out high numbers. one of his intercoolers supported a 400hp car recently! Now some say that it's fine to run without an intercooler or what not, but it's not suggested to run without one for even low boost. you will not only gain some power, but have more effiency with your turbo when you add one. save your engine, and your turbo set-up, and just add one now. you'll thank yourself later.
bov: this is suprisingly important to the life of your turbo. the blow off valve releases unused air that otherwise would go back against your turbo, which can destroy the fins and greatly reduce the life of the turbo. some suggestions range from a 1g dsm bov, to a hks ssq bov. the hks is considered (with some discussion) the best due to the fact it doesn't really need care. you bolt it on, and don't worry about it. there's not different boost springs, it doesn't have danger of being stuck open or shut, among other things. other bov's include the greddy type S, which is commonly used, and even a volvo bov (bigwig ;)). you can find these for a range of prices. look around on classifieds, and on ebay. you can get them from 35 bucks, to 300 bucks. all depends on the deal you find.
Oil lines: my best suggestion is to check stealthmodeperformance.com for your turbo line needs. he has the best set-ups, for pretty cheap. otherwise, check homemadeturbo.com in the classifieds for ads for things such as this. without these, you're screwed. so get them!
downpipe/exhaust: your downpipe is what connects the turbo to the exhaust, and expels used exhaust gases. I found this the hardest thing to find/do. My best suggestion has come from bigwig, who gave me www.atpturbo.com (http://www.atpturbo.com/) . which carries flanges, gaskets, and all the turbo accessories you need. find the flange you need there, and then go to a muffler shop or perfeormance shop and have them fab up a downpipe for you. obviously, you'll need the turbo and manifold "mocked-up" for them when they do it so they can get a good exact fit. as for the cat, a high-flow cat IMO is the best option, but others run test pipes and such. just find out what your local emission laws and enforcment is like, and make a decision based on that. a lot of times, a muffler shop will fab up the cat/downpipe at one time. as for diameter, 2.5-3.0 is a good diameter to give you good backpressure w/o too much, or too little. as for exhaust, the diameter stays. it's preferred to do 3.0in incase you want to run more boost, but there's many guys running 2.5.
vacuum lines, etc: these can be found on various sites, and it all depends on your set-up as to how much/many you need. I got lucky and found some online that someone was selling, so search around. there's always someone with an idea as to what you can do/find.
fuel managment: BEST:hondata/turboedit/uberdata. (and even better, full stand-alone like aem ems) these give full range tuning capabilities. with hondata, you pay a lot, and uberdata and turbedit are coming up rapidly which will make hondata obsolete. with uberdata, you'll want an obd-1 ecu, and with turboedit, you'll want obd-0. if you have obd-2, like I had, buy a conversion harness, and an obd-1 ecu. if you have v-tec, go with the p28. obd-2 is not chippable, and a pain (and I can never remember the exact reason why...someone help me on this) but it has something to do with it doesn't have a PROM. anyways. ALRIGHT: Afc hack. these will give tuning capabilities, but only up to a certain point. it blocks the signal sent to your ecu, and changes it accordingly so that the ecu sends more fuel/less fuel accordingly. these can be had for a fair price in classifieds and on ebay. beware what you buy though. sometimes these can be totally trashed and un-usable. NOT SO GOOD:fmu. yeah, we all have that moment where we just want to run an fmu. an fmu works on the scale effect. let's say you have a 12:1, which i suggest is the best pick if you go with this set-up: for every part boost your fmu sees from the vacuum line, it adds 12 parts fuel. this is not tunable, but will do it's job up to a certain point. an fmu is partnered with a missing link which blocks the map sensor from seeing boost.

[Sonny7730]

(cont.d)
injectors: these you will want to upgrade. you can possibly run stock with an fmu or afc hack, but it's extremely not recommended. if you're going for low to low-middle boost, you can use 310's/340's...and the like. the best suggestion is to go with 450's, and if needed a resistor box. 450's can be had for cheap, say 50-75$ off of a dsm.
spark plugs: these are tricky. I'm still debating on what I'm going to do. the best suggestion is to run ngk brk7e's that are two steps colder. i believe the code is bkr7e -1. if you don't run one step colder, you run a chance of melting a plug, which isn't fun, and can give you risk of detonation and the problems associated with turbos.
wastegates: some people have asked what an internal wastegate vs. an external wastegate does. and internal wastegate is a "factory" setting for the turbo as to how much boost it can run. this is most common on the turbos found on other cars, like the saab or volvo you got your t3 from. these can be changed, by a process. I'm not sure on how this is done, so do some searching, and I'm sure you can find something. (and if you do, pm me, and I'll edit this) external wastegates can be purchased pretty easily and mount onto your manifold. these control boost settings and have different sizes for different amounts of boost.
INTERNAL WASTEGATE
Pros:
-They are cheap
-The work pretty well
Cons:
-Known Spiking issues when used with large exhausts
-Dont have removable springs to raise boost pressure

External WG
Pros:
-Hold Boost extremely well
-Can buy various sized(38,40,44)
-Various springs available
Cons:
-Price
-Extra fabrication(dump tube/extra flange on manifold)
[thank you bigwig for this information]
extras: some other things you'll need include hosing and clamps for your i.c. piping which can be found at jcwhitney.com, atpturbo.com, or even on ebay. also, you'll need some gaskets which aren't too hard to find if you look around. also, at the very least, an air/fuel gauge and a boost gauge will get you set in the right direction. word to the wise: go to pepboys, or autozone, and buy the 20 dollar auto meter gauges. they're cheaper, and work just as well, if not better. Another extra is a fuel pump. this is sometimes overlooked, but face it. you're pushing more fuel, and the honda fuel pump won't last all that long. it's a good idea to up-grade this to be on the safe side.

how do I install this biznitch?

this can be found in the DIY forum. this is a great write up dxmann found. http://www.cse.uconn.edu/~yelevich/turbo/turbo.html

what are some problems I might see?
you could see anything from nothing at all, to smoking, to detonation. one thing that has been covered recently is smoking. if your turbo is smoking itself, it may just be grease and dirt burning off. some people get smoke naturally occuring with their set-up. if your set-up is, just watch it carefully, and if it doesn't go away, ask for some help in checking it out. also, if you're burning oil after a little while of boosting, you may have blown a headgasket. another thing to be careful of with the turbo is shaft play. if you're buying a used turbo, and not positive on it's former owners care of it, a rebuild kit may be in your best interest. if there's more than a milimeter of shaft play, it's a good idea to rebuild, or don't buy the turbo. if you put too much power through the engine, you may run into snapped rods and what not. if you do decide you need an aftermarket bottom end, there are plenty of great deals to be had. one good deal are the suzuki vitara pistons with eagle H beam rods. these have been tested to hold up extremely well.

one of the most overlooked parts of turboing a car, is the gas you run. no longer is your car just an econobox. you have to have more octane because of the added dense air particles. so your best bet is to run premium (93 i believe) and then if you can get it tuned for 87, that's perfectly fine. but 93 will be your best bet.


For you Uberdata interested guys - here's some links that might help shed some light on it:
http://www.ecimulti.org/uberdata/forum/index.php?board=7

http://home.mn.rr.com/keebler65/honda/index.html


an EXTREMELY helpful resource that I have read several times is the book, "Maximum Boost" by Corkey Bell. It gives indepth explanation of the things you need, the processes, why everything is happening, and also trouble-shooting.
another book that might help is "High-Performance Honda Builder's Handbook" by Joe Pettitt.
Also, be sure to pick up a haynes manual, and/or a helms manual so you have basic engine building knowledge to back you up!

I hope this has helped someone, in some way. any other questions can be asked here in the FI forum, but I hope I answered at least one question someone had. till next time, keep boosting, and keep loving the D!
peace.
Michael

[kommon_sense]

For anyone serious about turbo, I'd recommend that you read Maximum Boost by Corky Bell

It is an excellent book that explains the tech side of a turbo setup so that you can make intelligent choices on your setup. It explains a lot of the "rule of thumb" answers that we all read on the net.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0837601606/qid=1095867794/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-6837962-0897442?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[Bizzar]

http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/index2.html

Somewhat a DIY manifold. You just have some cutting, grinding and welding to do but this makes ordering the parts VERY easy. You can get the parts for around 20-30 bucks cheaper but hey, I prefere simplicity. Basicaly you can position your turbo flange at any angle or position you want and even make it a/c compatable. :) Steer clear of SSautochrome. I just sent mine back...post about that fiasco soon to come.

[kommon_sense]

The engine vents hot oil vapor through the breather chamber and pcv valve which then gets fed back into the intake manifold. This system is inadequate in a high performance NA vehicle and completely fails in a turbo setup since the pcv valve needs vacuum to open and with a turbo it sees positive pressure.

In a NA setup, the catch can goes between the breather chamber on the block and the pcv valve. so it goes :

breather chamber -> catch can -> pcv valve -> intake manifold.

The catch can should have some form of baffling inside to allow it to seperate the oil out of the hot oil vapors coming from the engine. Its important to remove those vapors because they will reduce your volumetric efficiency (hot air takes up more space than cold air), and lead to detonation.

Ideally you would want the catch can to drain whatever oil it collected back to the oil pan... no point in wasting it...

so a *PROPERLY* setup and *BAFFLED* catch can is always a good thing.

[b20vtec]

http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html this is a good turbo site

[Rexinre]

I was messing around on the net and found this great info...

My new turbo is installed, now what?
Before starting the motor, it is important to get an adequate supply of oil through the turbo. To do this, disable the ignition or injectors (different for various cars) so the car is able to crank without firing. Crank the motor over for 30-45 seconds in 10 second intervals. This will pre-oil the turbo, and prevent premature thrust bearing failure.



What's the difference between 6cm2, 7cm2, and 8cm2 turbine housings?
Contrary to what your friend told you, a 7cm2 turbine housing does not have an inlet that is 7cm across. The 6cm2, 7cm2, and 8cm2 designations given to Mitsubishi turbine housings refer to the area of the cross section of the housing, known as the nozle area. In unported form, the 6cm2 and 8cm2 turbine housings have a 54mm "step bore" inlet, and the 7cm2 housing has a 60mm step bore inlet. When porting any of these housings, the step is removed, and the turbine housing is matched to a standard 7cm gasket, which has an opening that is 60mm in diameter. When porting your turbine housing, it is a good idea to port your exhaust manifold to 60mm as well.



What's the difference between internal and external wastegates?
Internal wastegates are comprised of a flapper door which is built in the turbine housing, usually operated pneumatically by a mechanical actuator. These flapper doors are limited in size, but work well in certain applications. Usually found in smaller turbos, internal wastegates are relatively inexpensive, simple in design, and very durable. Larger turbo can be fitted with internal wastegates, but boost control can be tricky. If you are looking to run high boost (20+ psi) all the time, then an internal gate may be fine. If you are looking to run lower boost levels, you will need an external wastegate.



External wastegates are generally mounted to the exhaust manifold or to the O2 housing, and are self contained units. External wastegates have the ability to bypass large amounts of air, and can provide steady boost control at any pressure level. A common myth is that in order to run higher boost pressures, you need a larger wastegate. This is incorrect. Larger wastegates are necessary to run low boost levels on large turbos.



I just bought Turbo-X, how much boost can I run?
This is a question we cannot answer for you. The amount of boost your car can handle is dependant on the rest of your setup, as every car has different flow properties and fuel capabilites. The best advice is to start low (5-8psi) and work your way up, paying close attention to your air/fuel and EGT gauges (you DO have these, right?).



What are twin scroll or divided inlet turbine housings? What are the benefits of using a twin scroll turbo?
A "twin scroll" or "divided inlet" means that there are two separate volutes within the turbine housing. The main reason for doing this is to isolate the pulses coming from each exhaust port and maintain more of the pulse energy from each cylinder all the way down to the turbine wheel. There are no differences between the turbine wheels used in open or single inlet turbines compared to those used in twin or divided inlet turbines.

Generally speaking, a divided inlet turbine setup will respond faster and produce boost quicker than single or open design of the same nozzle area, of course this is dependent upon proper execution. The simple fact that a divided housing is used does not guarantee these results.

While it does not cause any problems or harm to run a divided inlet turbine housing on a manifold that is an "open" design, none of the benefits of the twin inlet will be seen.



Why do people say it's not good to get oil feed for the turbo off the cylinder head? Should I use a filter on my oil supply line to my turbo?
There are plenty of people who have oiled their turbo off the head and not had any problems, there are just as many if not more that have done it and had recurring turbo failure that was only vaguely described by the repair shop as "poor lubrication".

Oil pressure in the cylinder head on a stock 4G63 engine can be less than 5psi at times, while this may be enough oil for a factory 14b, T25 or even 20g it isn't enough to feed the high volume oil passages of the modified thrust setup in your FPGreen or FPRed model turbo. The Garrett severe duty 360 thrust setups also have an increased appetite for lubrication. Think twice before feeding either of these type turbos from the head.

Remember that you aren't just trying to keep some oil on the bearing, you are trying to float one piece of metal above another piece of metal on a pressurized film of oil, and at the same time keep the whole mess cool enough not to melt. A constant high volume stream of oil does just that, a measly trickle will send you back to the turbo shop.

One exception to this is the Ballistic Concepts Ball Bearing CHRA from Garrett. These turbochargers are totally different internally. Their operation is actually impeded by too much oil. It is fine to supply these turbos with oil from the head. In fact the oil line we offer comes from the head and features a .8mm orifice to restrict the oil flow to the turbo . These turbos require water cooling in the absence of the typical high volume of oil that would normally provide stable temperatures.

As far as filters go, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. You shouldn't need one in your oil line. Failures occur due to dirt/grit in the oil making it into the turbocharger. Failures also occur due to plugged filters. We have seen it both ways. If you are going to use a filter, check it often. The most important thing you can do to avoid oil contamination of you turbo is to THUROUGHLY wash everything more than once before assembling your engine. Avoid sandblasting anything that goes inside or onto the engine. Specifically avoid sandblasting your valve cover. If you suspect that the machine shop that did your valve job sandblasted your head then make sure you remove the 4 plugs from each end of the head that cover the ends of the oil gallies and wash the gallies out with HOT SOAPY WATER. If you do this you will be amazed at what comes out of your beautifully machined freshly rebuilt head.

If you think all that is a bunch of crap, at least spin the engine over to prime the oil system without the turbo attached so that anything in the gallies has a chance to flush out instead of flush into your new turbo.



The shaft in my turbo feels loose. How much freeplay should I have?
While this specification does vary from one brand to another and rule of thumb is less than .030" radial freeplay and less that .002" axial freeplay.

This amount of freeplay is required to allow the bearings to "float" in a pressurized film of oil while the engine is running. The flow of oil through the clearance around the bearings is what helps the bearings stay cool. This oil film around the bearings also help dampen vibrations that occur to the rotating assembly as it moves through it range of RPM. Ball bearing turbochargers do not have this pressurized film of oil around the bearings; this is why they are somewhat more noisy than floating journal bearing turbos.

[Rexinre]

My tubo is smoking and it's brand new. The shaft has normal play in it so is one of my seals blown?
The term "blown seal" is widely used to describe a turbo that has oil coming out of it. In reality a turbocharger seal cannot become damaged until the freeplay of the shaft has increased to the point where the blades of the turbocharger have been rubbing against the housings. Blade contact usually requires more than .035" of side to side movement of the shaft. In some cases it is even possible to rub the blades and still not damage the seals.

If the turbo is new and the shaft isn't loose and bouncing off the housings, but oil is coming out of it chances are you can correct the problem without even taking the turbo back off the car.

The seals within the turbo are not meant to hold back a bearing housing that has become full of oil. They are designed to sling the oil mist and spray within the bearing housing away from the point where the shaft comes out each end. If the bearing housing becomes full of oil it will ooze out past even brand new seal rings.

The oil should freely drain out of the bearing housing as quickly as the engine supplies it. This is why the drain tube is so much larger than the supply tube. Gravity is the only force moving the oil out of the turbocharger. Any slight restriction in the oil drain tube, even a small silicone dingle berry, can slightly impede the draining of the oil and cause oil to back up into the bearing housing.

The crankcase vents are the second largest cause of oil loss from a good condition turbocharger. The seals in the turbocharger were designed with expectation that the pressure inside the compressor and turbine housing will always be greater than the pressure in the bearing housing. If this is ever not the case then oil will come out pass the seals. A restricted crankcase vent will cause this to happen. If the amount of ring blowby exceeds the ability of the crank vents to release the pressure positive pressure will build within the crankcase. This pressure within the crankcase can exceed the pressure inside the compressor and turbine housings under some operating conditions resulting in oil being driven pass the seals by the improperly biased pressure gradient across the seal rings. In severe cases it may be necessary to introduce vacuum pumps to deal with crankcase pressure, but these would be very severe high boost applications where even low percentages of blowby produce a high volume of crankcase vent flow.

[Rexinre]

Found more great FAQ!

What is a turbo?

Quite simply, a turbo is merely an exhaust-driven compressor. Imagine a small shaft about the size and length of a new pencil. Now rigidly attach a pinwheel to each end of the pencil. One pinwheel (called the turbine) is placed in the path of the exhaust gases which are exiting the engine. These gasses are 'caught' in the turbine, causing it to spin. This in turn spins the whole shaft, along with the pinwheel on the other end (called the compressor). The compressor is placed in the intake air's path; once it begins spinning, it actually compresses the air on its way into the engine.

Why is this beneficial? Well, normally aspirated engines have to work to draw in their intake air. In other words, as the intake valves open, the piston's downward movement creates a vacuum which 'sucks in' some air through the intake system. Ideally, the piston's movement would suck in 100% of the air that could fill the combustion chamber. In the real world this is not the case; the typical engine will draw in only about 80% of the total volume of the combustion chamber. There are many reasons for this--intake restrictions, valve timing, camshaft design, and much more.

Now imagine that the engine mentioned above has a turbocharger. When the turbo compresses the air it builds up pressure in the intake manifold. Now when the intake valves open, air is actually forced into the combustion chamber. (This is one reason why turbocharged engines are sometimes referred to as 'forced-induction' engines.) As you might imagine, this allows more air to fill the chamber.

Okay, so now we have more air entering the engine. To benefit from this, we need more fuel to match. On computerized vehicles such as these, various sensors will "see" this amount of boost pressure and increase the amount of fuel accordingly. Now that we also have more fuel entering the engine, more power is made. (When you get right down to it, the only way to make more power--on any engine--is to shove more of the proper air/fuel mixture into the engine.)

How do turbochargers and superchargers differ?

While they perform the same function, turbochargers and superchargers go about it in completely different ways. As has already been mentioned, a turbo is driven by the exhaust gasses which are already being expelled from the engine. So, in effect, turbos add 'free' power since their compression is created by what was already discarded.

Superchargers, however, are different: they are belt-driven. They feature a pulley whose belt is directly attached to the crankshaft, this allowing them to spin in direct proportion to the engine itself. The upside is a near absence of lag (see below); at least some boost is typically available the instant you crack the throttle. The primary drawback to a supercharger, however, is that they take power to make power. The overall result is more power than there would be without the supercharger; it's just that they aren't as efficient as a turbocharger from an energy standpoint. Other drawbacks include lower mid-range power than a turbo, lower thermal efficiency than a turbo, (sometimes) much harder to incorporate intercooling, etc.

What is turbo lag (and how do I avoid it)?

The majority of turbochargers feature a waste gate--a valve which allows some of the exhaust gas to be directed around the turbine. This allows the turbo's shaft to spin at a reduced speed, promoting increased turbo life (among other things). Think of it as a 'stand by' mode. Since the turbo isn't needed during relaxed driving anyway, this effect is harmless...

...until you suddenly want to accelerate. Let's say that you are loafing along, engine spinning 1500 rpm or so. You instantly floor the throttle. The exhaust gas flows through the turbo and cause it to spool (spin up to speed and create boost). However, at this engine speed there isn't very much exhaust gas coming out. Worse still, the turbo needs to really get spinning to create a lot of boost. (Some turbos will spin at 150,000 rpm and beyond!) So you, the driver, need to wait for engine revs to raise and create enough exhaust gas flow to spool the turbo. This wait time--the period between hitting the throttle at low engine speed and the creation of appreciable boost--is properly called boost response. Many people incorrectly call it lag, which is really something different. Lag actually refers to how long it takes to spool the turbo when you're already at a sufficent engine speed to create boost. For example, let's say your engine can make 12 psi at 4000 RPM. You're cruising along at a steady road speed, engine spinning 4000 RPM, and now you floor it. How long it takes to achieve your usual 12 psi is your turbo's lag time. Between the two, slow boost response usually causes the most complaints.

There are two aspects to consider when dealing with boost response: engine factors and driver factors. As far as engine factors go, there are many things which affect turbo lag... although most are directly related to the design of the turbo itself. Turbos can be designed to minimize lag but this usually comes at the expense of top-end flow. In other words, you can barter for instant boost response by giving up gobs of horsepower in the upper third of your RPM range. (Behold the catch-22 in designing one turbo for all uses.)

Driver factors are another matter. You basically need to understand how a turbo works and modify your driving style accordingly. To sum it up, don't get caught with your pants down! If you feel that there may soon be a sudden need for serious thrust, downshift until your engine speed is at least 3000 RPM. This way there will be noticable boost almost as soon as you hit WOT. If you are going up a hill at WOT around, say 1800 RPM and your speed is dropping, you'll need to downshift just like any other car in the same situation. Remember: turbos need exhaust gas in order to spin. Let them have some when they need it.

[Rexinre]

What's an intercooler and how does it help?

To answer that question, a discussion of thermodynamics is involved. Turbos, as has been mentioned, compress an engine's intake air. By laws of physics, compressing air also heats it. For an engine, heating the intake air is a bad thing. For one, it raises the combustion chamber temperature and thus increases the chance of detonation (uncontrolled combustion which damages your engine). Another bad thing is that air expands as it is heated. So in other words, it will lose some of the compression effect and the turbo must work harder to maintain the desired level of compression.

Thus enters the intercooler into the equation. An intercooler is a heat exchanger--sort of like a small radiator except that it cools the charge (your intake air) rather than the engine coolant. Now that the charge is being cooled, two benefits appear: combustion temperatures decrease (along with the detonation), and the charge becomes denser which allows even more air to be packed into the combustion chamber. Exactly how much heat is removed varies greatly; some factors include the type of intercooler used, its efficiency, and its mounting location. From what I've seen, getting your intake charge temperature within 20 degrees of ambient is excellent; consider this a practical limit for a street-driven car (meaning you might get closer but not without spending tons of money).

There are two types of intercoolers: air-to-air and air-to-water. Air-to-air means that as the charge passes through the intercooler, the intercooler itself is cooled by air flowing through its fins. Picture your car's radiator but substitute the intake air where the coolant goes and you'll have a rough idea of how it works. In an air-to-water intercooler, the intercooler is cooled by a liquid rather than air; this liquid has its own radiator placed where it can receive airflow, hoses connect this radiator to the intercooler itself, and the liquid must be circulated throughout the entire system.

Each type of intercooler has its strength and weakness. Air-to-air units tend to require longer ducting to route the air from the turbo through the intercooler then back to the engine; this extra tubing might increase lag slightly on some engines and may also present interesting packaging challenges. Air-to-water units, however, can have significantly shorter intake plumbing; the intercooler can be placed in hot under hood areas where no airflow is present since the liquid coolant circulates to its radiator. This allows for simpler installation but at an expense of reduced cooling efficiency. Note that both kinds cool better when air is flowing through the intercooler (air-to-air) or the radiator (air-to-water); both kinds can benefit from the installation of a fan for low-speed operation.

Which type is better? Depends on your goal. From where I sit it seems that air-to-water intercoolers are used either for convenience--to eliminate the possible ducting nightmare of the intake--or for drag-only vehicles where a "one shot" setup uses ice to actually drop charge air temps below ambient... for a very short while. I think it is telling that a number of street cars which featured air-to-water intercoolers from the factory--such as the GMC Cyclone and Typhoon--are almost always converted to air-to-air units when upping performance is the goal. Check out an issue of Turbo magazine; you'll see these cars with huge air-to-air units mounted below the front bumper (or else behind the grill and in front of the radiator). There's a message here somewhere....

For very detailed technical information on intercooling, I recommend you visit this Buick-oriented web page (http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html). There are math formulas and lots of technical explanations which will really open your eyes to what makes for a good intercooler.

Can I mount more than one intercooler?

Sure you can; your limits will be defined by the room you have to work with and your budget. If you try this, should you mount your intercoolers parallel or in series? The correct answer is simple: in parallel. ALWAYS. Mounting intercoolers in series doubles your pressure drop, which is very bad, while mounting in parallel cuts your pressure drop in half while also allowing for more thorough cooling. Twin intercooling will cause great results; a racer's rule of thumb states you can never have too much intercooler. Here is a web page (http://community-1.webtv.net/@HH!00!16!145B718E22FC/MR-2-2-TURBO/DUALINTERCOOLERS/) showing how one FWD Mopar fan set up parallel intercoolers in his Daytona Turbo Z.

Can I make my air-to-air intercooler more effective?

Certainly! What can be done? For starters. maximize airflow through the intercooler. This means remove anything between the incoming air and the intercooler's fins--the A/C condenser, funky ducting, or anything else that actually impedes airflow. If your intercooler isn't directly in the path of air, relocate it so that it is. If you are unable to move it around, create some sort of shroud/airdam to redirect air through the intercooler (tin or plastic should be great for this).

Another idea for you creative types is to make a mister. Get a windshield fluid reservoir, mount it where it will stay cool, and fill it with water. Now run the output tube to the intercooler. Mount a few spray nozzles aimed at the front of the intercooler's core, then join them to the output line with tees and such. Rig up this reservoir pump to a switch or button inside the car so that you can momentarily enable it when desired. The water evaporation will help draw even more heat off the intercooler, further lowering the temperature of the intake air that flows through it. You can get really fancy here; I had a friend that rigged the on/off switch to the throttle body so that the mister would activate at WOT. You can decide how to do it, but this is a neat little trick for just a few bucks.

[Rexinre]

Tips on choosing a turbine

Turbines are actually a very simple science. The turbine powers the compressor because it is a physical restriction in the exhaust flow. The more it restricts (ie: the smaller the turbine) the faster it spins the shaft... but the more it chokes the engine and robs you of top-end horsepower. The less it restricts (ie: the larger the turbine) the slower it spins the shaft... but the less it chokes the engine and the more top-end horsepower you can make. That's the key to understanding a turbine.

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Select the point where the turbine housing begins and measure the cross-sectional area A at that one point. Now measure the distance between the center of this area and the center of the turbine wheel--that's the radius R. Do some division and you come up with a measurement. Now move to a different point in the turbine housing and do it again--the calculated ratio remains constant because the housing constantly gets smaller in diameter the closer it gets to the turbine wheel. When upgrading from the .48 to the .63 A/R, it's the area that changes; the radius is essentially identical. This is precisely why the .63 housing flows more air--the passage is larger!

Now you've decided your turbine's A/R ratio. Next, choose your exact turbine wheel. Turbine wheels are typically referred to in stages: StageI, StageII, StageIII, etc. One very important fact is that these stages are not universal! A Turbonetics StageII wheel is far different from a Garrett StageII wheel, for example. Make sure you know what you're getting when you ask for it.

What's the big deal about stages? This is how turbo manufacturers refer to the differences from one wheel to another. What changes, exactly? The shape, curvature, pitch and "overlap" of the wheel's blades, primarily. For a great example, look at the picture below. See how the stock wheel's blades "fold over" one another, preventing you from seeing through them? By contrast, check out all the open area between the blades of the aftermarket wheel
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4cc29b3127cce9dc7c29d1df200000016108AauGjZo2Yt4 (http://javascript<b></b>:openSlideWin(1,%20'67b0de21b31c109aa447',%2016);)
Factory Garrett turbine wheel verses aftermarket Garrett StageII turbine wheel:


All those open areas on the aftermarket wheel result in far less turbine backpressure, which paves the way for lots more top-end horsepower... but remember: this aggressive turbine will spin more slowly than the stock one. The slower shaft speed means the compressor spins more slowly, also. When the compressor speed slows down, your boost output falls off as well. This is why large turbines need large compressors to match!

[Rexinre]

Tips on selecting a compressor

Now that you've selected a turbine, it's time to choose a compressor to match it. You will have a variety of options. However, it won't be a case where only one exact wheel will work--instead, it's a matter of one (or two) wheels which will work best. This is where you'll need to do some math, come to grips with a few technical terms, and so on... but it still isn't outrageously difficult to do, so don't sweat it.

Speaking of technical terms, let's get right to a few of them. To understand why and how one compressor wheel flows differently than another, you need to understand the anatomy of the wheel itself. Let's take a look at the following picture:

Compressor wheel terminology:
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Two key parts of a compressor are the inducer and the exducer. The inducer (sometimes called the minor diameter) is the part of the wheel that first takes a "bite" of ambient air. The exducer (sometimes called the major diameter) is the part of the wheel that "shoots" the air--now compressed--out of the turbo. Just remember that the inducer is where the air comes in and the exducer is where the air exits. Got it? Good.

You need to understand those two terms in order to grasp the concept of trim, a bizarre bit of tech-speak which is often thrown about. Trim is simply a term to describe the size of a specific compressor within a family of wheels. It can be expressed in abstract ways (such as when Turbonetics says they have P-trims, Q-trims, etc) or you can use the actual numeric measurement (50 trim, 57 trim, etc). Here's how you calculate the measurement:

[Rexinre]

Trim = (minor diameter / major diameter) ^2 * 100

So now we have a way to perform some math and get a number. What does it all mean? Generally speaking, the larger the trim the more flow the wheel will have. Nevertheless, one should not rely solely on a trim measurement when selecting a compressor wheel! Find out specific wheel measurements (inducer and exducer), understand how subtle differences will affect airflow and response, and then choose a wheel accordingly.

Speaking of subtle differences, let's take a look at them. First, the inducers:

Compressors with different inducers and identical exducers

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4cc29b3127cce9dc7c29c9cc300000016108AauGjZo2Yt4 (http://javascript<img%20src=&quot;http://www.d-series.org/forums/images/smilie/icon_surprised.gif&quot;%20border=&quot;0&quot;%20alt=&quot;&quot;%20title= &quot;Surprised&quot;%20smilieid=&quot;2&quot;%20class=&quot;inlineimg&quot; %20/>penSlideWin(1,%20'67b0de21b31c109aa447',%2015);)

What happens when you upgrade to a larger inducer while retaining the same exducer? The most notable change is more airflow capability; since the turbo is taking a bigger "bite" of air in every revolution, it can obviously "spit out" more air as well. Gee, more airflow sounds great... so why not go to the biggest inducer you can find? Because that creates two main problems, one much more important than the other. The smaller problem--really it's just a nuisance--is the turbo will now have a little more lag during spool up (because the bigger wheel weighs more, plus it has to do more work with each revolution, etc). While this extra lag might not be noticed on a dyno--all the bystanders will be oohing and ahhing at the huge top-end horsepower such a turbo would produce--it would make for dissatisfaction in your day-to-day drive and could even cause you to lose a drag race to a car with less peak horsepower but more area "under the curve" due to his turbo that spools sooner. The real trouble with a large inducer increase but no exducer increase, though, is it makes the turbo much more likely to surge. Surge is the situation when the compressor "spits out" more air than the engine can swallow, which causes a backup of air at the intake and it actually creates reverse-flowing pressure waves that can be very damaging to the turbo. You want to avoid surge at all costs.

[Rexinre]

Okay, so maybe we won't go hog nuts wild with the inducer. How 'bout the exducer? Let's take a look:





Compressors with identical inducers and different exducers
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4cc29b3127cce9dc7c2909ccf00000016108AauGjZo2Yt4 (http://javascript<img%20src=&quot;http://www.d-series.org/forums/images/smilie/icon_surprised.gif&quot;%20border=&quot;0&quot;%20alt=&quot;&quot;%20title= &quot;Surprised&quot;%20smilieid=&quot;2&quot;%20class=&quot;inlineimg&quot; %20/>penSlideWin(1,%20'67b0de21b31c109aa447',%2013);)


When you upsize the exducer without modifying the inducer, the exact opposite effect happens: your spool up time is reduced. Why does this happen? Remember that a compressor "spits out" the air in a radial fashion. The larger exducer gives a higher wheel edge speed for a given shaft speed, and that higher edge speed means the compressed air exits at a higher speed than before... and thus it builds boost faster. Another effect of this upgrade is an increase of the compressor's pressure ratio capability without a significant increase in its maximum flow rate; we'll discuss these more later on.

So now let's tie it all together. If you want more power with similar response, look for an upgrade of both diameters. The larger inducer will net you more airflow and thus greater power capability, while the larger exducer keeps boost response within reason and lessens the chance of surge.







(Stop and take a deep breath--you've digested a lot of info.)

[Rexinre]

Now that we've covered all that, it's time to mention compressor flow maps. These are simply charts which give you a feel for how one wheel's flow compares to another; in fact, they give you the entire relationship of airflow, compressor efficiency, pressure ratio and shaft speed. Don't overlook the importance of that last varible--this information will be crucial when matching up to free-flowing turbines which are spinning quite a bit slower than stock. Here's an example of a flow map:

Flow map for a Turbonetics T04E-50
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4cc29b3127cce9dc7c29e9cc100000016108AauGjZo2Yt4 (http://javascript<b></b>:openSlideWin(1,%20'67b0de21b31c109aa447',%2014);)
Compressor maps always use X:Y graphs where the horizontal axis represents airflow (typically expressed in lb/min of air) and the vertical axis indicates the pressure ratio (manifold pressure divided by ambient pressure). The oval lines represent "islands" of efficiency, and the percentage figures for each one tell you the thermal efficiency of the compressor wheel at that combination of airflow and pressure. The lines which cross the islands indicate the shaft speed required to generate that amount of air flow; for example, the top line indicates a shaft speed of 126,077 RPM. These numbers are very important since a 'larger' turbine will spin slower than a smaller one.

[Sprayin95Hatch]

nice post, somthing i wouldent mind seeing u post about is where u can get cheap parts, like what cars have fuel pumps that are bigger than yours, injectors, and so on

[Rexinre]

A very basic definition of Manual Boost Controller (hereinafter referred to as "MBC") is: a device that regulates the amount of air pressure applied to the intake manifold of an engine that is equipped with a turbocharger. So that we can understand why regulating (and increasing) the charged air pressure to the intake manifold is important, let's take a look at high-level overviews turbocharged engines.




In a turbocharged engine there is another component added… a turbocharger. The turbocharger is in effect, part of both the exhaust and intake systems. The turbo harnesses energy from the channeled exhaust gasses and uses that energy to increase or "charge" the air to the intake manifold. As described in the proceeding paragraph, in a non-turbocharged engine, exhaust gases are channeled away and released. When a turbocharger is installed, it is positioned in a way to tap into the energy of the quickly expelled exhaust gases. Like the swift current of a river causing the paddles of a watermill to turn, the quickly moving exhaust gases spin the turbo's turbine wheel. On the other side of turbo, and connected to the turbine wheel by way of a shaft, is a compressor wheel. This spinning compressor wheel is positioned in the intake system so that it sucks in ambient air, and crams it into the intake manifold.







How a MBC opens the Wastegate when the desired boost level is obtained? When using the MBC, the user (that's you!) sets the MBC's adjustor to the desired setting. Then, when the car is accelerated, the boost pressure rises, and air pressure builds in the charged portion of the intake system. Because one of the MBC hoses is attached to this charged portion of the intake system, the rising boost pressure is also delivered to the MBC.

What the MBC does with the pressure that is delivered to it? How it goes about causing the Wastegate to open?

There are two basic types of MBCs: ball-and-spring types, and bleeder types.

What is a ball and spring? A spring-loaded ball is used to block this delivered boost "signal", until the desired boost level is achieved. It is at this point, that the delivered boost pressure is strong enough to push the spring-loaded ball toward the spring and out of its seat, allowing the signal to pass, and reach the Wastegate Actuator. The boost pressure then presses against the Wastegate Actuator's diaphragm, causing its arm to move, so that the Wastegate is opened. The opened Wastegate then allows the exhaust gases to divert away from the spinning turbine, thus preventing the turbo from boosting higher than the desired level.

The MBC is adjusted by turning a knob (or other adjustor), which varies the load on the spring inside the MBC. By adjusting it so there is more load on the spring, you are 'raising the boost" because more boost pressure is required to move the ball off its seat before the signal can pass to the Wastegate Actuator. By contrast, lessening the load on the spring allows the boost signal to more easily unseat the ball and continue on its voyage to the Wastegate Actuator, so by backing the adjustor away from the spring, you are "lowering the boost". The Joe P MBC (http://boostcontroller.com/index.php?category=4), and all Hallman Manual Boost Controllers (http://www.boostcontroller.com/index.php?category=5), are ball-and-spring type MBCs.

What is a bleeder type?

This is a valve that simply "bleeds" off some of the boost pressure that it receives. It always allows some boost pressure to reach the Wastegate Actuator, but the boost pressure that the Wastegate Actuator receives is always less than the level of boost pressure in the charged portion of the intake system (or the boost level delivered to the bleeder-type valve) because this kind of MBC basically is a controllable boost leak. Since the Wastegate Actuator does not receive the "full boost signal", it only opens the Wastegate when the amount of boost that gets past the "leak" is sufficient to force it open. The bleeder-type MBC is adjusted by changing the size of the leak. Closing the leak down lowers boost level, because more of the boost signal then reaches the Wastegate Actuator, opening the Wastegate sooner. Opening the leak wider raises the boost level, as more boost is released to the atmosphere, as opposed to being delivered to the Wastegate Actuator as a boost signal; so the opening of the Wastegate is delayed.

Which system is better to use?

The ball-and-spring type MBC is clearly superior over the bleeder type MBC. The ball-and-spring type does not leak any boost (at least prior to reaching the desired boost level), and then sends an immediate signal to the Wastegate Actuator to open the Wastegate upon reaching the set level. The bleeder type, by design, is actually a boost leak. Typically, for maximum performance, it is best if the charged portion of the intake system has no leaks while it is in a charged state (AKA "under boost") but the bleeder type valve is allowing boost pressure to be released before attaining the desired boost. So, like your Mom or Dad yelling, "We're not paying to heat the outdoors" when you left the door open as a kid, you are in a sense now "paying to boost the outdoors" with a bleeder type MBC. Boost leaks are counter-productive and you pay the price of using a bleeder type MBC by blowing out energy from your closed, charged-air system that would have been better used to cram more air into the intake manifold. Also, Wastegate operation is less efficient with a bleeder type MBC, as some boost pressure is always allowed to reach the Wastegate Actuator. This results in the Wastegate being partially opened at times before the desired boost level, and results in the Wastegate opening more slowly when the desired boost level is obtained.

FYI

You may notice that many ball-and-spring type MBCs have, by design, a small hole… either in the case, or in one of its "barbs" or "nipples". In the picture below, the red arrow is pointing to such a hole. This does not indicate that it is actually a bleeder type MBC. Near the start of the last paragraph, it was stated that ball-and-spring type MBCs do not leak boost, "at least prior to reaching the desired boost level". Such a hole is typically on the "Wastegate side", so when boost is building on the charged-air side of the MBC, no pressure can go out that hole until after the desired boost level is achieved and the spring-loaded ball is pushed out of its seat. Then the boost signal rushes past the ball on its way to the Wastegate Actuator. The reason for that hole is to allow the "column" of charged air, or "boost signal", to drain or "bleed" out of the hose that sent the signal to the Wastegate Actuator. Without that hole, the charged air in the hose to the Wastegate Actuator would tend to "get trapped" and would slow the proper closing of the Wastegate. Technically, it is an inefficiency to allow some boost to escape, but it is a very small inefficiency that has a good trade-off. The inefficiency is relatively small so it really is not even worth mentioning… but that hole is a source of curiosity to many, so an explanation was warranted. Some ball-and-spring type controllers may not have such a hole and in those cases, the manufacturer may advise a small diameter "T" fitting or some other means of providing release hole.



http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4cc35b3127cce9df3910cf2bd00000016108AauGjZo2Yt4 (javascript:openSlideWin(1, '67b0de21b338acf5a47f', 0);)

[Rexinre]

How is it determined what turbo boost level the MBC is set at, and what is the best level?

The first part of that question is easy… the second part cannot be answered here. The set boost level is determined by means of a boost gauge. Do not depend on a factory boost gauge. Different car manufacturers use different methods by which to measure boost and display it to the driver. Modifications performed on the vehicle, including the installation of a MBC, may actually make the factory boost gauge display inaccurate readings. Only a good quality, aftermarket boost gauge should be used.

As far as what boost level is best, you are on your own! This is not meant to scare or inconvenience you… but to make clear that it is the responsibility of the owner of the vehicle to research what level is best (and safe!) for their vehicle and their level of modifications. Two seemingly identical cars may have different optimal boost levels. Varying levels of modifications between cars also vary the optimum boost level. Online discussion forums that specialize in your model of car are one good place to investigate optimal boost levels. Never take one person's word for it. While they may be well intentioned, there is also lots of misinformation on the Internet. Always verify your research (over and over again).

There are other prudent modifications to the vehicle that can, and should be made in conjunction with installation of a MBC (and aftermarket boost gauge) that will help maximize the resulting power gains of your vehicle and its safe operation. Freeing up the flow of both the intake and exhaust systems is always a benefit to turbo vehicles. Ensuring that there is always a sufficient fuel supply to go along with all the extra air crammed in thanks to the MBC is always a good idea. That may involve modifications such as a higher flowing fuel pump, higher capacity fuel injectors, or an aftermarket fuel management system. The use of higher-octane fuel may also be prudent.

There are also other gauges and diagnostics that are useful besides the mandatory aftermarket boost gauge. Some are Air-fuel ratio displays, exhaust gas temperature gauges, and fuel pressure gauges. It is recommended that the relevancy of these additional modifications and monitoring devices be further explored… unfortunately; to elaborate on them here would take many more pages.



Manual Boost Controllers of the ball-and-spring type, when used with the knowledge for proper operation, and with appropriate monitoring of boost level and other engine parameters, are perhaps the best bang-for-the buck performance modifications in existence for turbocharged vehicles! If you are on a quest for more horsepower, and a distinct competitive advantage, a manual boost controller is probably in your future.

[Rexinre]

How does a electronic boost controller work?



The pressure at which the wastegate opens is the base boost pressure, installing a boost controllers will allow you to run higher boost. An electronic boost controller usually works using a solenoid (electronically controlled) valve. A solenoid valve would have 3 ports (sometimes 1 is hidden inside the housing), and 1 port goes to the wastegate, the other port is hooked up to the intake, and the last port is left open to the atmosphere. The solenoid can switch between connecting the wastegate port to the intake port, or connecting the wastegate port to the atmosphere port.



Suppose you want to run 14PSI of boost, then a electronic boost controller should do this -- when the boost reaches 14.1PSI, the solenoid will connect the wastegate to the intake, causing the wastegate to open (since 14PSI is higher than the 7PSI required to open the wastegate)... the turbo will start slowing down, when it drops to 13.9PSI, the boost controller will then switch the solenoid and connect the wastegate to the atmosphere. This causes the wastegate to close since the atmosphere is 0PSI lower than the 7PSI needed to open the wastegate, and the turbo will start speeding up again. This happens rapidly and keeps boost regulated nicely at 14PSI.



Most boost controllers accomplish this by figuring out what percentage (or ratio) of the time the solenoid would connect the wastegate to the atmosphere vs. connecting the wastegate to the intake. This ratio is often known as the DUTY CYCLE, the duty cycle is directly related to the boost level.



Now this is the main function of the boost controller, but there is another benefit to running a electronic boost controller, and that is it will allow the turbos to spool up a little faster. How does it do this? Well, a wastegate might be designed to open at 7PSI, but it usually cracks open a little even before the pressure hits 7PSI. This will slow down spoolup of the turbo, causing it to hit 7PSI a little later. A good electronic boost controller would keep the wastegate shut for as long as possible, by using the solenoid to connect the wastegate to the atmosphere (0PSI) till the turbo gets really close to hitting the boost you want, only then it will start switching the solenoid back and forth according to the duty cycle. To determine how long to keep the wastegate shut, most electronic boost controllers use a number known as GAIN. If the gain is set too high, the boost could spike (the wastegate is held closed a little too long causing overboost), but if the gain is set too low, the spoolup is not as optimal as it could be. Getting the correct gain setting will give the optimal spoolup of your turbos.



Manual mode vs. automatic mode vs. fuzzy logic



Most of the modern higher-end electronic boost controllers have an automatic mode or fuzzy logic, where you simply enter the boost you want to reach, and the boost controller would automatically try to figure out the DUTY CYCLE and/or GAIN. In certain cases (eg. twin-turbo setups), this logic might not work very well, and it would be necessary to use the manual mode.



How to set up an electronic boost controller in manual mode



In manual mode, there are two numbers that has to be determined: DUTY CYCLE (sometimes also labelled as SET) and GAIN. The optimal gain number always depends on the boost level you want to run, if you are running very high boost, then you want the wastegate held closed for a longer time since it takes a longer time to reach the higher boost. So the first step is to determine the duty cycle:



1. Start off with a low DUTY CYCLE and GAIN setting.



2. In a higher gear (3rd or 4th), run the car to see what boost level the duty cycle corresponds to by watching what steady/stable boost level is reached. Increment the DUTY CYCLE with each run till you reach the boost level you want. Fine tune as necessary. If you notice boost spikes, then you have set the gain too high, you do not want spikes at this point since that makes it more difficult to see the steady/stable boost level.



The reason why you should use the higher gears is because in the low gears, things can happen too fast to figure out what the steady/stable boost level is. Now that you have figured out the duty cycle that will give you the boost level you want, the next thing to do is to work out the gain:



3. Make runs in lower gear (1st or 2nd), increment gain with each run till you see boost spikes. Then fine tune it till there is little or no boost spike. This is your optimum gain setting for that boost level.



The reason why you should use the lower gear now is because boost builds much quicker in the lower gears, so there is a higher tendency to boost spike.



When setting your boost controller, always have a passenger set the controller and watch the boost gauge for you, the driver should keep his eyes on the road!



Common problem



Sometimes if the gain is set too high, it may appear to have the same effect as the duty cycle. If you notice (especially in the higher gears) that you initially hit the boost level you want, but then it starts tapering off, then you might have set the gain too high and the duty cycle is not set correctly. Or you might have a boost leak...

[Rexinre]

Is there anything else anyone wants me to look up? I like doing this... it keeps me busy!

I was thinking BOV's and the different types.

Anything else?

[Rexinre]

Blow Off Valves...

Pressure release valve or more commonly known as a "Blow Off Valve", releases turbo pressure when the throttle plate is closed. The turbo is still spinning and still creating pressure. The forced air will hit the throttle plate and return where it came from. When a BOV reads vacuum from the manifold, it either opens a valve, or softens the valve. This lets the pressure escape from its opening. In order to work correctly the air must go back into the intake before your turbo because the Air Flow Meter has accounted for it. If not you will have a temporary rich condition which will upset your idle slightly. Proper tuning can get around this hassle. Most choose to vent to the air, as they love the sweet sound the air makes when it runs to the atmosphere. If the pressure release valve (as some call it) contains a horn or small holes/vents it will cause the air to make a louder/higher pitched sound depending on what is used.


Q: What is the difference between a blow off valve and a bypass valve?

A: A blow off valve will release pressure to the air, while the bypass valve will release the pressure into the intake system between the turbo and AFM.





Q: I installed a blow off valve, it sounds really cool but my car stalls when I let off. Why?

A: First of all, the reason this is happening is because the Air Flow Meter on our cars measures the air coming in through the flapper door. It senses this air and adjusts the fuel mixture accordingly. When you let big rush of air out of the intake system, you are letting out a bunch of air that was just measured. The fueling will still dump the fuel associated with that air and cause an over rich condition. This will cause your car to stall momentarily or in some cases actually turn off. Once the BOV has closed and the intake system will return to its normal state and work again.



To fix this, you need to adjust your BOV. Most BOVs have a screw or nut to adjust the tension. You can turn the screw/nut to the right and increase the tension. Do this several times with a test drive in between. If your BOV stops letting out the pressure, you have adjusted it too tight. You will then need to start adjusting soft again. You must keep playing with this adjustment until you get it just right. A good adjustment will allow the BOV to release pressure after slight boost, and not stall afterwards. It is not necessary for the BOV to release pressure when you rev the car.



Q: I have heard of a bypass valves being vented to air, is this possible?

A: Yes, but not right away. If you vent the bypass valve to air, your car will stumble and most likely turn off between shifts. The reason for this is that once all the pressure is released the bypass valve will still be open and create a huge air leak which the AFM does not like. If you put a one way check valve on the end of the output, this will only allow the air to go out, but not in. Be sure to seal the other side of the intake where the air would normally be vented. This makes for some interesting sound effects!



Q: How can I make my blow off valve LOUDER?

A: There are a few possibilities. The first thing to remember is that there is more boost located in the piping between the turbo and intercooler, yet most blow off valves are placed near the throttle. Now, you want it by the throttle for response, but you can place it closer to the turbo for a louder sound output. Another thing to consider is to amplify the sound. You will notice that blow off valves with basic air holes are not as loud as blow off valves with horns (blitz) or air splitters (HKS). If you have a Greddy type S, the most common BOV out there, you can find something similar in style to the horn on a blitz BOV and that will make the sound output far greater. Finally, if you (or the people on the street) want to hear your bov, then you need to place it in a location that would let the sound travel out. In most cars the sound is muffled by the hood lining. Placing them out side of the engine bay on intercooler piping or similar methods will make your BOV loud and scary!



Q: Where do I get the vac/boost feed for my BOV?

A: While using the small nipples on the left/back side of the intake manifold may work, I suggest that you use the larger A/C idle adjuster hose. This will increase the response and thus the sound of your BOV. In addition to this, this hose is much closer to your BOV location.



This next question doesn’t pertain to us but here you go anyways.

Q: Can I use my new BOV in conjunction with my stock type BOV

A: Yes you can but it requires some fancy fabrication. This would be the ideal setup. The stock bypass valve could handle low boost / flow situations. Which means you can tighten the main blow off valve so that it only opens under high boost. This way you have created a "double valve" system. This is not as necessary these days since twin valve designs exist.

[Rexinre]

Fuel Management

This one took me some time to put together, but its was worth it.

What is Stoichiometry?

Before we start upgrading a fuel-management system, it is very important to understand the dynamics of why an engine makes power. Simplified to a level that even a ricer-boy can understand, an engine requires three things to run: air, a certain percentage of fuel, and spark. An engine is most efficient when it burns every molecule of air and fuel that enters the cylinders. "Stoichiometry" is a chemical term that means the most complete combustion will take place. For gasoline, stoichiometry is 14.7 parts of air to one part of fuel by weight. Keep in mind this is only for gasoline. There are many cases where an engine will not have a 14.7:1 ratio. Start-up and warm-up are prime examples, as more fuel is needed in cold temperatures. Even when warm, an engine will only use a stoichiometric ratio in cruise or light-throttle conditions. At full throttle or for maximum power an engine will use a richer ratio. A turbo engine under boost will also use a richer mixture. A 14.7 mixture would cause a turbo motor to detonate.



TDC +/- Why is this important?

OK, so we have air and fuel in the combustion chamber. Now what? It's time to light it off. The idea here is that expanding gasses and the pressure of the burning fuel and air will push the pistons down in the cylinder, turn the crank-shaft, and transmit power to the wheels. But when, during the combustion cycle, should the pressure occur? At some point in the history of the internal combustion engine, someone figured out that the best time for maximum pressure to occur is between 12 and 14 degrees of crankshaft rotation after top dead center (TDC). If something isn't set up right and maximum pressure occurs when the piston is at TDC, the rod journal of the crankshaft will be aligned with the centerline of the crank. The result is energy directed at the main bearings, rod bearings, the block, and the cylinder head instead of making the crank rotate. This means the engine will be trying to push its crank out of the bottom or lifting the head off the block. If maximum pressure occurs beyond 12-14 degrees after top dead center (ATDC), the piston will be too far away, the pressure will be lost, and the engine will not be efficient.



What Is EFI?

An engine’s fuel injection system must manage three things: how much air an engine has, how much fuel is needed to mix with the air (dependent on conditions), and what the proper timing for the ignition of the mixture will be. All the basics of power that dictate how well an engine performs are controlled by a modern car’s EFI system. For example, let’s say your car has a turbocharged engine and at 4,000 rpm with full boost it will require 18-20 degrees of timing. The extra amount of air and fuel provided by the turbo result in a faster burn of the mixture. But with no boost and light throttle at the same rpm, 40 degrees of timing would be needed for the engine to operate properly. That’s quite a bit of timing range to cover and it’s up to the car’s EFI to figure it all out. That’s why today’s cars are so efficient. Old vacuum-advance distributors simply don’t have that type of range.

[Rexinre]

MAS and MAP?

We've discussed timing a little, so now we'll blab about air. The computer must know how much air is entering an engine so it can tell the injectors how much fuel is needed. There are a few different ways for an engine to measure the amount of incoming air.

Mass-flow fuel-injection systems use a mass air sensor (MAS) to measure the mass of the air entering the engine. Most MAS devices measure the amount of air by directing air past a heated wire that is part of an electronic circuit. Air flowing across the wire draws away some of its heat and an increase in electrical current is required for it to maintain its fixed temperature. The current necessary to heat the wire is proportional to the mass of air flowing across the wire. Most mass-flow fuel-injection systems measure the air directly, so there is no need for the engine's computer to correct for air density. Once the computer knows the amount of air entering the engine, it looks at the other sensors to determine the engine's current state of operation (idle, acceleration, cruise, and deceleration). It then refers to an electronic table or map to find the appropriate air/fuel ratio and selects the correct fuel-injector pulse width. A couple of drawbacks to a mass flow system include its price and overall design, which can restrict airflow in high-horsepower engines.

The other popular method of determining airflow is a speed density system. Unlike mass flow systems, there isn't an airflow meter that can cause airflow restriction. Speed density fuel injection systems use the speed of the engine, a measurement of manifold vacuum, and the density of the air to calculate engine air flow. This is accomplished by using a manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor and a pre-determined table of how efficient an engine is at flowing air in all conditions. The inherent problem with the table is that it's created at the factory and is based on a new, stock engine. The table of volumetric efficiency does not take into account wear-and-tear of an engine or if an intake or exhaust manifold was changed. To compensate for this, a speed density system uses an oxygen sensor to measure the air/fuel ratio. If the sensor is reading any errors, then the computer will correct fuel delivery of the injectors.

An injector is the engine component that allows fuel to be applied into the combustion chamber. Most import cars have one fuel injector for each cylinder. An injector works by having an internal plunger that is activated by the application of voltage. When the plunger is activated, an opening is created, allowing pressurized fuel to flow past it. An injector's primary concern is fuel delivery in all types of conditions. Fuel flow is controlled by varying the pulse width or duty cycle of the injector. Pulse width is the time in milliseconds that the injector is open, while duty cycle is the injector's overall percentage of open time.

That's a basic overview of the components in a fuel-injection system. It's important to have a background on how it works, but it's also pretty boring. What can be done with fuel injection to give your car more power is much more interesting.



Let us preface this by saying that the fuel-injection systems on modern cars are very efficient. Honda, Mazda, Mitsubishi, and everybody else have spent a lot of money and time perfecting their fuel delivery systems. A stock car and a stock EFI system work very well together. There's no real reason to modify the combo. But when you start adding aftermarket parts, things change. A stock computer should be able to handle the first steps to increased engine performance like an air intake or header. But what about a turbo or nitrous? Did the engineers who created the EFI system on a Civic foresee an owner bolting on such a thing? Don't think so. At this point an aftermarket EFI system must seriously be considered.





Chips?
An aftermarket chip works by optimizing the timing and air/fuel ratio of an engine. Some car models will benefit more from a chip because they have more conservative EFI programming. German cars like VWs and BMWs are stereotypically conservative and will respond better to a chip. But if a car already has an optimized EFI setup, it will be difficult for a chip manufacturer to improve the stock EFI programming. Chips are also somewhat limited since they are only as good as the car they were programmed on. Every engine is different. If you change the setup of your car, such as adding camshafts, then the chip will no longer be calibrated properly.



Chipping your Stock Honda ECU?

This reliable way of controlling your engine can be tedious at times, yet very effective. This cheep yet effective system allows you to use your stock OBD-0 and OBD-1 ECU converted to your own needs. As you may or may not already know, your stock ECU already controls the injectors, timing, and MAP/MAS to a certain extent. Chipping your ECU allows you to change the stock settings to meet the requirements of your aftermarket components. For example; if you add a turbo (forced induction) you would need to change a few items that go with just that “bolt on”! As stated above more air = more fuel, which in turn means bigger injectors. With programs like Hondata, Urberdata or Chrome you can control things like bigger injectors and timing with ease.



What are Hondata, Urberdata, and Chrome?



In short this is the software that allows you to modify your stock settings, then you to burn the program to the chip so your stock ECU can read the modifications. Then the chips go into the stock computer to make it not so stock anymore. There are many programs available, and some not so available. Hondata is one that is sold and could be quit costly with all the components. Urberdata and Chrome are free programs that are widely distributed over the internet. Yes free, even though you don’t need to pay for the program you do need to pay for the burning equipment and chips.



Here is the tedious part. If you burn a chip and find the settings were not effective enough you will have to make the changes on a computer in the desired program, burn the chip and then insert it to your Honda ECU. This is where a EFI had its advantages over chipping, a few key strokes and you are done.

[Rexinre]

Injectors?



An aftermarket air intake or header will require the computer to add more fuel. Stock injectors can add more fuel but only up to a certain point. Increasing fuel pressure is an option, but increasing the fuel pressure changes the calibration of the injector. An EFI system bases its calculations on the known calibration of the injector. If the injector calibration is changed, the computer won’t know this and will create a fuel curve most likely detrimental to performance. The only way around this is modifying the stock computer or adding larger injectors.

Choosing the correct-size injector is always difficult. A balance must be struck between having enough fuel for full-throttle acceleration runs and being able to cut fuel output for part-throttle puttering around town. More fuel is not always better. If there is too much fuel, the engine will idle poorly or possibly even refuse to start. This is because many larger injectors will not operate with an adequately short duty cycle to lean the air/fuel mixture enough at idle.

Lucas injectors are a popular aftermarket choice for upgrading injectors. Instead of having a pintle-type design that factory injectors have, Lucas injectors have a plate-type design. The plate design allows the injector to operate with a much shorter duty cycle while still being able to provide enough fuel for maximum power. Lucas injectors also work much better with turbocharged engines because they are more resistant to the heat that a turbo creates.

Even if your engine is stock, increased performance can come from balancing and calibrating the injectors. Injectors can be defective right from the factory or become clogged after a few years of use. A clogged or improperly adjusted injector will create an uneven distribution of fuel mixture between the cylinders. If one cylinder is lean, the computer will retard the timing for the entire engine, meaning the engine will lose a lot more power than it should.

Aftermarket EFIs?

Stock computers do have limitations. The engineers of a Honda Civic’s computer probably never thought that a turbo would be bolted on. Consequently, the computer doesn’t recognize the changes that a turbo creates and problems will arise if the engine is boosted too much.

This is when an aftermarket EFI system should be used. Aftermarket systems allow the complete customization of an engine's timing, air measuring, and fuel delivery. For example, consider you have added a 90hp nitrous system. As we said earlier, maximum cylinder pressure should occur at 10-14 degrees after top dead center. With nitrous, more fuel and oxygen will be added and cause the flame front to travel faster, meaning the timing must be retarded, but only when the nitrous is flowing. Driving around town without nitrous and with retarded timing will translate into a pig of a car. Now consider the same car but with ACCEL's DFI system installed. The DFI system can be setup to progressively retard the timing as nitrous and fuel are applied.

Some of the more popular aftermarket systems are ACCEL's DFI system, Electromotive's TEC system, or a Motec system. With any of these systems, changing the air/fuel ratio and timing can be done with just a few computer keystrokes.

So why doesn't everybody need an aftermarket system? Because they are customizable, aftermarket EFI systems are not emissions-legal. They also require an extreme amount of knowledge to install and program. That's right, program. It's not like an air filter that you take out of its box, bolt on, and you're good to go. They must be told how to operate the engine, meaning an intimate understanding of how an engine works is required. A laptop computer and special software are needed for operation. Of course, they are quite expensive, too. So, do you think your ride is a candidate for an aftermarket EFI system? If you want more information, call the companies or check out books like Car Tech's High Performance Honda Handbook.

[makku]

I highly recommend this site to get a real good working knowledge of turbo systems for non-turbo cars.... for integras, but close enough

http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html

[mikeD16Z6]

As mentioned earlier, upgrading the fuel injectors is a good idea.

For those of you who do not have a Helms manual, here is the procedure for changing fuel injectors on the z6 & z1 . (scanned and photochopped) DSM injectors may require some modification to the ring seals. Perhaps someone else may want to comment on how to do this?

http://img121.exs.cx/img121/8311/injectors2copy6nh.jpg

[mark7901]

is the hf manifold off the crx? and does it crack easy?


Yes, off a CRX, and its made of cast iron. So it should be stronger than stainless steel. Its also basically log style (my opinion) and is a pretty good exhaust mani for turbo. Just get yourself a adaptor plate (hell, I can send you one, its setup for CRX mani to TD05H mitsu turbo) its nothing special though. Their was a guy @ homemadeturbo.com that had some snazzy turbo adaptor plates for sale.

[Rexinre]

bump for any more info requested... also if anyone has anything to add please do so.

[Rexinre]

Some information about block posting...



The best site on the subject is here:
http://www.theoldone.com/articles/badtothebone/

Then there is this
http://www.muller.net/sonny/crx/engine/posted.html

And, not as good.
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showth...ed=1#post114034

[konigcivic]

well as you see on honda tech and shit i have seen some weird ways people are doing their pcv system.. its like no one looks on a real factory forced induction car.. well here you go.. the items you see here are from a 91 saab 9000 turbo.

http://www.pixhost.com/pixk/konigcivic/t3z6.jpg


now the small hose after the check valve goes to the intake manifold so you have vacuum pulling the crankcase vapors out.. it also has a check valve so the boost pressure does not get into the crankcase..

the big port goes to the turbo inlet pipe on the compressor side.. now when your in boost the small check valve closes and and the big hose is now pulling vacuum on the crankcase through the port on that valve..

this is the best of both worlds.. the crankcase has vacuum at all times unlike if you just have the stock pcv valve there..

you just put this valve where the stock pcv valve goes and run the hose..

now you can just run anoother hose from your valve cover to the turbo intake or just put a small little filter on there it wont matter to much..

if you want you can add catch cans where you see fit..

this is the way it should be ..

[konigcivic]

yes it swaps from the intake manifold to the turbo intake.. so there is ALWAYS vacuum pulling the vapors from the crankcase.. you can run it to whatever port on the manifold as long as there is the check valve on it like in the picture. then you need to run a hose from the big port on the valve to the turbo intake..

yes fook when not in boost it acts like the factory system and pulls into the intake manifold..

while in boost the intake of the TURBO pulls all the crankcase vapor out..

[FooK]

yes it swaps from the intake manifold to the turbo intake.. so there is ALWAYS vacuum pulling the vapors from the crankcase.. you can run it to whatever port on the manifold as long as there is the check valve on it like in the picture. then you need to run a hose from the big port on the valve to the turbo intake..

so when you run it to the black can, what do you do with the original pcv valve location on the intake? plug off both ends? or does that even pass thru the intake chambers at all?

poo i dont have an intake tube.

[konigcivic]

god damn i always get a headache when going through pcv and catch can issues.

so is it possible to put together that setup above through other parts or do you have to get it from the saab. i think im not fully understanding how it works because im not sure where the hoses run

ok this is how i have it..

the black piece goes where your stock pcv valve is.. since you already have a hose that used to connect to your old pcv valve, you hook that up to the check valve..

then you run a hose from the big port to your turbo's intake pipe.. you might have to weld on a pipe nipple if you dont have one already..

thats it..


see the reason to do this or any way you can find out is so the crankcase does not build pressure.. the stock pcv valve colses on boost and the pressure in the motor just builds up which is not good..

using this way or any other way you can figure out always pulls a vacuum on the motor even in boost conditions...

im not really good in talking about shit so if you have any questions just ask or pm me..

oh yeah i got these parts off of a saab motor that was sitting in my brothers shop.. they actully go on the saabs valve cover.. i dont think they have a black box on the back of the motor like us..

[konigcivic]

No they don't have a chamber....I can personally attest to that!!!

yeah i didnt see one when i looked but it was just a motor on the floor who knows what was taken off of it.. so i wasnt sure..

all i can say is that this shit is working for me big time.. there are two things i have noticed since installing the system this way

1. oil stays at the same level ..
2. exhaust does not smell like oil anymore ..

im guessing in my situation the crankcase pressure was making it hard for the oil to drain from the turbo under boost..

good thing i found this shit and its solved now..

[konigcivic]

i'm not getting something here...

What's preventing a vacuum leak from the intake pipe nipple through the check valve to the manifold at idle? Is there a built-in check valve that closes off that big nipple when it sees vacuum in the manifold???

ohh... maybe i get it... the pcv valve is one-way anyways. It only lets gas flow out of the crankcase, not back in. So air can't come from the intake pipe into the valve, only from the crankcase into the valve.

nice! i'm going to see if I can get this at autozone :) they have a bunch of PCV valve replacements (never for civics though)


i also thought of that to..

the big port is open all the time.. but i think even at idle it will pull a very small vacuum..

when you are in any manifold vacuum conditions the check valve will open and the vacuum will be split between the 2 ports.. so its not as strong as a vacuum at idle.. but will be enough to work out..

and there is a small restrictor in the black piece where the small hose connects.. this makes the idle quality like stock...

then as you know in boost the check valve closes and the big port is pulling all the vapors out ..

if you dont have the hose hooked up to your turbo it should still be just fine because it will allow the vapors to get out.. thats a shit load better than the stock pcv because the stock one as we know just traps the vaoprs in boost conditions.

i was just at autozone and i forgot to look at the pcv section.. sorry guys ill do it tomorrow..

[konigcivic]

that would be awesome if you could do that. how much do these usually run?

most likley less than 10 bucks with some hose .. i still have to go to autozone and check to see if they have the right items..

i got mine for free though.. from a motor in my brothers shop.

[D16z6TurboCivic]

This is definitely good info to have. I will keep this in mind on my project As on my last car i always wondered why oil levels would be different from time to time with no oil leaks.

[konigcivic]

well kinda bad news i went to 2 autozones since they are the ones that have a pcv section and they had some stuff that was kinda the same but it was not the exact same as what i have..even in their books they didnt have a pcv system for saabs..

looks like i will have to take a trip to the dealer sometime and see.. unless one of you help me out and go first...

well if you can find a parts thing online those parts in the picture are located on the valve cover of a 91 saab 9000 turbo.

later guys

i hope i can get some part numbers and prices for you guys soon, since you all seem to like the idea..

[FooK]

maybe i can help

they call it a breather connector, the check valve up on the hose is what they call the pcv.

here

Breather Connector (http://www2.autopartsauthority.com/parts/autopartsauthority/wizard.jsp?year=1991&make=SA&model=9000-T-002&category=All&part=Breather+Connector)
http://img.autopartsauthority.com/live/thumb/B201355952MTC.JPG

PCV Valve (http://www2.autopartsauthority.com/parts/autopartsauthority/wizard.jsp?year=1991&make=SA&model=9000-T-002&category=All&part=PCV+Valve)
http://img.autopartsauthority.com/live/thumb/B204086353HEL.JPG

the breather connector lists for like $5 on that site but the PCV lists for about $43. You could re-use your OEM PCV valve there tho.

[konigcivic]

thats pcv valve is just a check valve that they have a napa for like 5 bucks..

so if you go to the dealer and get that breather connector then to napa or any parts store and get the check valve .. it should be golden!!

good work fook!!

http://www.napaonline.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/NAPAonline/search_results_product_detail.d2w/report?prrfnbr=28567075&prmenbr=5806&usrcommgrpid=

napa check valve $4.30 part number bk 7301347 thats if the link does not work.

[konigcivic]

well a little update on the pcv system.. you should install a catch can on the line off the valve cover.. i have noticed a little more oil from that line.. i really dont notice any oil lost like at the dipstick .. but i just thought id tell you about the oil from the valve cover.. im thinking its just because the crankcase is breathing more and thats why its doing that.. i guess thats why the endyn kit is a drain back system because it spits out more oil than usual..


just installed my catch can on the valve cover line!! either im cheap or broke but im using a pepsi bottle for my catch can.. its put to the side so you cant see it but it works!! not really anything in there after a days worth of beating on the car.. the bottle looks a little misty thats it.. just run the line to the pepsi bottle and poke a 1/2" hole on the side of the bottle so the gas gets out but the sludge if any stays in there... ill take a pic if you guys want to see it but im sure you can figure how it looks...

[Rexinre]

Its important to run colder plugs for turbo cars... A general good rule of thumb is 1 step colder per every 100 whp. For example if your car has 100whp to start with and you put on a turbo and get 200whp you should run 1 step colder plugs. On that same note if you get 300whp you should get 2 steps colder and so on...

Basic info about plugs found here... http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/partnumberkey.pdf

I just wanted to add this about plugs for turbo applets real quick...

NGK = BKR7E is a V 2 step colder then stock plug
NGK = BKR7ES-11 is a regular 2 step colder then stock
NGK = ZFR6F-11 is a V 1 step colder then stock plug
NGK = ZFR6A-11 is a V 1 step colder then stock plug

Champion = RC9MC4 is a regular 1-2 step colder then stock

Stock for Civics are either... ZFR5E-11 BKR5E-11

5 is the heat range indicator. 2 being the hottest and 7 or 8 being the coldest for NGK only!


EDIT; I have used the Champion plug in my turboed car... I just ordered the NGK BKR7E's for my new turbo build.

[Rexinre]

BKR7E = http://www.ngk.com/productImages/1/NGK24B%2Ejpg (See the V at the end of the electrode?)

Applications for this plug are as follows:
ASTON MARTIN DB7 (2001) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1370742)3.2 L6
ASTON MARTIN DB7 (2000) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1361157)3.2 L6
ASTON MARTIN DB7 (1999) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1352450)3.2 L6
ASTON MARTIN DB7 (1998]3.2 L6
ASTON MARTIN DB7 (1997) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1006658)3.2 L6
VOLVO 850 (1996) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1288908)2.3 L5
VOLVO 850 (1995) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1288863)2.3 L5
VOLVO 850 T-5 (1997) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1360134)2.3 L5 B5234T
VOLVO S80 (2003) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1418891)2.8 L6 B6284T
VOLVO S80 (2002) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1389292)2.8 L6 B6284T



BKR7ES-11 = http://www.ngk.com/productImages/1/NGK19A%2Ejpg (now you don't see the V)

Applications for this plug are:
SAAB 3-Sep (2002) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1388426)2 L4 B205R
SAAB 3-Sep (2001) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1401983)2 L4 B205L
SAAB 3-Sep (2000) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1402007)2 L4 B205L
SAAB 3-Sep (2000) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1417957)2 L4 B205L
SAAB 3-Sep SE (2001) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1401994)2 L4 B205R
SAAB 3-Sep SE (2000) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1402018)2 L4 B205R
SAAB 3-Sep VIGGEN (2002) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1388437)2.3 L4 B235R
SAAB 3-Sep VIGGEN (2001) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1374892)2.3 L4 B235R
SAAB 3-Sep VIGGEN (2000) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1364420)2.3 L4 B235R
SAAB 5-Sep (2003) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1418026)3 V6 B308E
SAAB 5-Sep (2002) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1388459)3 V6 B308E
SAAB 5-Sep (2001) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1374915)3 V6 B308E
SAAB 5-Sep (2000) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1364442)3 V6 B308E
SAAB 5-Sep (1999) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1357231)3 V6 B308E
SAAB 5-Sep AERO (2003) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1418037)2.3 L4 B235R
SAAB 5-Sep AERO (2002) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1388460)2.3 L4 B235R
SAAB 5-Sep AERO (2001) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1374926)2.3 L4 B235R
SAAB 5-Sep AERO (2000) (http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?aaia=1364453)2.3 L4 B235R

As you can see most of these cars are turboed.

The way I figure it, if its good enough for an Aston Martin then its good enough for my civic ;)!

EDIT: I understand that its tough to get these plugs from an over the counter parts store. If you go to any parts store and say you need plugs for any of the vehicles listed above they will get them for you. For example...

I went into the part store the other day and told them I needed BKR7E NGK's. They told me they couldn't look it up using that part number, and that they could only look it up through vehicle type. I then gave them the vehicle type... a 2001 Aston Martin DB7, they then asked... "NGK's or Autolight!" "NGK's Please!" I said, with a big smirk on my face. ;). I noticed that Advanced auto parts doesn't sell NGK's so I had to do it at NAPA.

Good luck peeps!

[Rexinre]

piggy back / piggybacking

First the definition of piggyback in computer terminology...

"The gaining of unauthorized access to a system via another user's legitimate connection." (AFCERT Computer Glossary)



Now how it works...

You will have to have a secondary computer of some sort to feed the primary computer with data. For example Apexi SFAC, Turbolink, greddy blue box, Greddy E-Manage are just a few to start. These computers will wire into your existing wire harness going from various sensors to your Honda ECU. We all understand that most of these wires are running off of electronic signals from various sensors inside of your engine bay. These different signals (from the sensor and computer) are interrupted by the “piggyback” computer and given a new signal to fool the stock Honda computer and sensor into thinking something else (bear with me here)! Now the stock Honda computer and sensors react as if the piggy back wants it to.



Let’s get specific…



We will take your VTEC for example. Your VTEC sends an electronic signal to your stock Honda computer; we will call this signal 5 to make things easy. Keep in mind I don’t know the exact #s that the signal uses, to find these exact #s use a multimeter. So, back to the 5; we will call this signal 5 at idle when VTEC is not engaged. Normally when you accelerate past a certain RPM your signal will change lets say 10. This 10 means VTEC is engaging at 6,000 RPMS. In order to change your VTEC from 6,000 RPMS to 4,500 RPMS your piggy back computer will do a few things.



First at 4,500 RPMS it will interrupt the stock signal going from the computer to the VTEC sensor and tell it to engage using the new signal 10.


Second it will tell the computer that everything is okay by giving it the 5 signal so you don’t throw any engine codes.



Simple right? Well not really…



Where things get hairy is when you involve Fuel and Ignition multiplied by RPMS and Boost. This is why people say stay away from piggy back computers with lots of boost. Piggy back computers work well; well enough for changing your VTEC or Rev limiter. But when you try and change fuel maps and ignition maps things get a little crazy. Some times the piggy back can’t keep up with all the signals it’s taking in and processing and with a lot of boost and at high RPMS it could be catastrophic (trust me I know 1st hand, 18psi and 2 cracked pistons later).



Alternatives to piggy back computers?

There is ECU chipping… read about it here (http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17184) and thank Makku for making this up for us.

Then there is ECU replacement, AKA Standalone systems. Very complicated and super $$$, but if you have the money it’s a great tool.



Summary...

Piggyback computers are cheap (relatively speaking) for simple applications (VTEC or REV limiter) and a good alternative to a FMU or nothing at all. But when you spend a lot of money on a motor and plan on running a lot of boost (over 12 PSI) consider an alternative or take your chances (like I did, and lost)!



I hope this helps… Good Luck & Happy Boosting



If anyone sees and error, please PM me… Or if anyone has something to add, do it!

[Rexinre]

Injector rates and various information... I just wanted to post that here...


http://www.robietherobot.com/storm/fuelinjectorguide.htm


http://www.wolfems.com.au/support/injectorflow (http://www.wolfems.com.au/support/injectorflow)

http://www.accordinglydone.com/data/injectors.php

[Rexinre]

Yup yup, if you need anything else explained further let me know and I will see what I can come up with!

[lkailburn]

so how about setting it up like this

http://www.lukekailburn.com/media/misc/pcv2.jpg

[konigcivic]

so how about setting it up like this

http://www.lukekailburn.com/media/misc/pcv2.jpg



well if you do it like that then you dont need the line with the check valve going to the manifold.. since you have the catch can hooked to a slash cut in the exhaust it has vacuum at ALL times and is actually a way i have wanted to do for a long time i just never got around to do it..

nice picture..

[9000_red]

i just installed mine using the saab pcv, and a catch can from road race engineering, i figured i'd post pics to give you guys a visual, it was incredibly easy to install. i plugged the saab pcv in place of the stocker on the intake manifold. ran a vacuum line with a check valve to the stock vacuum location on the intake manifold. the larger outlet on the pcv i ran to my catch can on the left side, and vented the valve cover to the right side of the catch can. i'll give it a few miles and see how well it works...

[Rexinre]

Here is a bunch of different clips on BOV sounds. Enjoy. http://www.blowoffvalves.com/

[Rexinre]

Here is a site that has a lot of compressor maps for different turbos. Enjoy!

http://not2fast.wryday.com/turbo/maps/

[gpny]

Off the same site I gave Rexinre Yesterday, THE GARRETT OFFICIAL GT Series Flow ratings, Comp maps, and turbine maps:

http://not2fast.wryday.com/turbo/maps/garrett.pdf

Start looking from pages 17 and up...

[Rexinre]

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/mitchelcosta/NGKsparkplugNum.gif

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/mitchelcosta/TR55-1-vx.gif

[Rexinre]

NOTE: There is more to detonation then just this.... with that said...

Alot of people don't understand detonation, why it happens, and how to prevent it, so I'm going to post some valueble information here.

Detonation is caused by the internals of the engine becoming so hot that part of the engine inside the combustion chamber, gets heated to a point where it ignites the fuel/air mixture prematurely. This can cause backfiring, melt engine parts, and can put a rod thru your block. Imagine what happens on the compression stroke when the piston is 1/2 way up the cylinder pre-detonates the A/F mix. The momentum of the engine and the other cylinders pushing it means the engine isn't going to stall. The pressure from the ignition of the A/F mix has to escape somewhere, sometimes thru your rings, headgasket, or by forcing the piston back down and spitting the rod out the side of the block.

Some say that you need to add fuel, this may be incorrect. Depending on your A/F ratio you may be giving away horsepower by running a richer when some simple and FREE top-end preparation is all that's needed. When I built my first D-series Turbo, a JDM SOHC ZC(D16A6), I had the head surfaced, new head gasket, AFC hack, 450DSMs, and a custom turbo kit using a T3 from a Mazda Rx-7 TII. The first time I took it out to drive and floored it, it hesitated and then at the next stop started to steam out the exhaust pipe. When I went to compression test it I was rewarded with a gush of antifreeze from #1 cylinder. I was like WTF and spent the next day taking it apart to see what happened. Turns out when I had the head surfaced, it made the edges sharp, including those that were inside the combustion chamber. #1 Cylinder had a pretty nasty edge on it, and was where the headgasket failed. While I had to head off I took it to a friends to have him look at it, and he told me what I am writing here now. I placed the new gasket on the head and using it as a template some black sharpie marked the areas inside the sealing ring of the gasket. I used a machinist debur tool, kinda like a small knife that you pull along a sharp edge and it cuts it off. Do this carefully and don't take too much off to where your headgasket may leak. While you have the head off you can use small brass wire brush together with a vacuum to scrub any carbon off of the pistons and head. Lastly use the debur tool to take the edges off of the valve reliefs in the pistons, again using the vacuum to assure that none of the metal shavings get into the engine. Once reassembled you'll find you can lean out your set-up around 4-5%(results may vary), and enjoy more power, response, and dependability from your engine.

[Rexinre]

one thing that you didn't cover that if you don't mind, I'd liek to touch on is piston preperation. You can and will have detionation at some point because of improper piston preperation when instlaling new pistons. you guys seem to sometines bag on me because i harp so much about endyn, well here's 1 big reason. they are the only place that ships to the customer properly preped pistons. they remove all sharp edges and swirl the surfaces so it won;t cause hot spots onthe piston which also lead to detination.

If your pistons are shinney and pretty when you install them, they are not properly prepped. You need to get a wheel sander on a dirgrinder or dremmel and sand any sharp edged down. not a lot, but enough to make it somewhat smooth edge. then the tops shoudl be lightly gone over to produced a brushed look onthe surface. this helps to heel the fuel from heating jsut 1 area of the piston up and causing hot spots during burning. i can't tell you every detail as I'm not an expert in the area, All I can tll you is what I've been trained since I was young about pistons and installing them.

Endyn does this for you already, so you don't have to worrie about it. This to me is worth the extra few $ over any other brands in my books. It's one more thing you don't have to do yourself and "hope" you did it right.

anywyas, good luck with your build guys.

[Cuong-Nutz]

My first turbo investment:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/cuongnutz/DSCF5314.jpg

[chitty]

in reply to the basics on page 1, what about fuel pump?

[Rexinre]

Here you go...^^^




What do I need to do to be prepared for boosting?
Well, It depends how much boost you're going to run. Are you going to go for fastest D in america, or a daily driver with a bit of pep??? No matter what engine you boost, some things you want to make sure are in good order are your fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, oil condition (which shoud be checked regularly anyways) belts, and other mechanical parts. Just make sure the engine is in good working order before you put more stress on it. Make sure your ignition system is up to par for the boost. You can use the honda oem system, which is actually recommended. Except for spark plugs, which will be covered later. Make sure the head is in good working order, such as gasket, valves, even seals if you so feel. for the block, a compression test and leakdown test will greatly help you get prepared for boost. These are obviously not vital, but extremely important if you want extended engine life. some are more important than others, depending on engine life.

[Rexinre]

Ok, for all you people out there with out a manual for your car here is a manual on line to hold you over untill you get one of your own.

http://www.redpepperracing.com/technical/v/

Good luck

[X292J]

N/M
heres something that someone might find useful, its a diagram on connection the lines on the wastegate

[Rexinre]

I don't know what took me so long to post this... I use it almost everyday for tuning. For those of you with the GM 3 bar and 2 bar map sensors here is a download for the voltage to boost conversion. Curticy of www.turbofreak.com!

Hope you have MS Excel... if not PM me and I will try and send you a jpg version (http://www.turbofreak.com/chris_robertsons_map_volts_conversion.xls)

[Rexinre]

While we are on the subject of 3 and 2 bar GM map sensors... Here is how you can identify what type of map sensor you have. Don't be like me and assume you have a 3 bar and tune with the 3 bar settings when you actually have a 2 bar (because that is what the kid who sold it to you told you it was).

Anyway here is the site that helped me find the problem.
http://www.robietherobot.com/storm/mapsensor.htm

[Rexinre]

You might need this to help guide you through the tuning process.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/mitchelcosta/AFRs.jpg

[nwi95]

what about compression ratios. i.e. with the edelbrock kit on a z6, in the ad it claims 260-280 hp at the crank. in fine print it says basically claims like this are achieved with pistons, cams, rods, etc. what would be an optimal c/r to achieve gains like this? also, cam profiles...what would be a good lift/duration along with pistons for these gains? i'm a do-it-youselfer and would rather learn to tune myself than to pay someone to do it. then i know exactly where i went wrong, and can diagnos the problem on my own

[70Hampsters]

this was a great write up! kudos

[Rexinre]

Thanks.

[vtecduck]

very nice, I read this sticky alot for info. Hopefully I can get my ebc set up correctly, I'm still fiddling with the set and gain on it :lol:

[Sonny7730]

Thanks.

[solfly]

this thread is amazing

[vtecduck]

I came across this on another site, I didn't see anything mentioned in the previous post and fig it would be helpful :D
Since these two terms are very commonly used in describing turbo/engine behavior, yet they are not always understood correctly, I wanted to attempt to clear them up.

People often mix the two up, or even interchange them, when they are in fact two VERY different things.

Boost Spike: Boost spike is when the boost level initially "spikes" up to higher than the preset boost setting, and then quickly settles back down to where it should be. As most people with turbos know, once the boost pressure in the intake starts to rise, the rate at which it rises quickly increases until the pressure is increasing at a phenomenal rate. This means that, if your boost is set at 12 psi, when it reaches that point it will be increasing so quickly that it will go higher than 12 psi and then drop back down once the boost control system can correct it, which is within a half second or so.

Some causes of spike are bad boost controllers (only ball-and spring type MBC's should be used, and only proven electronic boost controllers should be used), long boost source or wastegate activation hoses, and the lack of any boost controller at all. It's basicially an effect a t slow response time of the boost control system.



Boost Creep: While boost creep also refers to an unwanted rise in manifold pressure, its cause and effect are totally different from those of spike, as is the way it manifests itself.

As you know, boost pressure is controlled by the wastegate, which allows exhaust gasses to bypass the turbine wheel. In effect, it creates an alterna