American Dream vs. European Dream

[seano]

http://www.utne.com/pub/2004_125/promo/11349-1.html (http://www.utne.com/pub/2004_125/promo/11349-1.html)

I thought this was a great and very interesting read. Take a look, let me know your thoughts.

peaces.

[S Q A D]

he kinda downplays America and says its not a great country, envied - yes, but great - no ??

Im not really down with that - did you want us to see this and agree with him ? or were you just wondering what people thought of this?

[D16A6T]

I see this as more of an attack on America. More of a response to our recent military actions. It is very true that we in the light of other countries have come to be known as one to bully, but I see our recent acts as more of protection of our interests not only for our own country but for others as well. As far as the American dream, I really do not see any lack of enthuiasm in Americans toward this goal. What are your plans? Do they match the American ideal?

[seano]

Did you guys read all of those pages? I thought it was very interesting, and very much on point. I agree with a lot of what this guy has to say. His numbers don't lie, and everything makes total sense to me.

I was just looking for some discussion on this subject because I found this to be a good read that made a lot of sense to me.

[S Q A D]

oooooo oops I only read the first page

:lol: I was like .. what is the point of this

Ill read more and get back to you ;)

[infinatenexus]

If only I gave two shits about Europe, or what they think. They European dream would involve a Swastika, and the third Reich if it wasn't for us lazy Americans.

BTW: I live the American dream, so I say he is full of shit.

[seano]

Man, I swear it sounds like you aren't actually reading the article, looking at the numbers he presents, and thinking about what he is saying.

[makku]

^^ you really need to get over that... it was over 50 years ago.

The author makes some interesting points... but I think he makes too many assumptions and generalizations. The statistics don't lie though. I really do think that the U.S. will soon not be the strongest economy in the world. There was an interesting discussion on PBS with the CEOs of all the major computer companies... Intel, Cisco, etc. They all said that we're losing when it comes to technological advancement. Of all places, can you guess which country is the most technologically advanced?... in the sense that they use the most technology in their daily lives?

It's South Korea.

The CEOs point is that we're not fostering a growth of techincally skilled workers in this country. Countries like China and India are... One of the things we're doing to prevent this growth: We allow the brightest minds from across the world to attend our universities, yet when they graduate, we revoke their visas and tell them to go home. We cultivate all this talent and do nothing to retain it.

As for the European dream... well, I'm not so sure about that. The E.U. is an interesting experiment and I hope it works out, but it's in its infancy and no one will know how or if it will end. As for the American dream, it's still there... but not many people are trying to acheive it. Working hard is supposed to mean that you do what you need to do to achieve your goals. Working hard DOESN'T mean that you get any job and work hard at it and expect to get something. Don't expect your job out of high school or college to make you set for life... if you want security or if you want even more, you need to go out and TAKE it. I think a great majority of americans have forgotten this. Honestly, this was once a republican ideal, but I think that even their message has gotten twisted somehow.

Man, a lot of you are going to jump on this comment, but there is one group of people that do have the american dream set in their sites: the chinese (and to some extent, most asian countries... India, Korea, etc). They come to this country and they are freaking poor. They may have been rich in their own country, but all their wealth there will not amount to much when they get here. Yet, look at the percentage of chinese or korean immigrants that really succeed versus the percentage of say Mexicans that succeed. (no offense to any Mexicans) It doesn't really compare. (granted they both have different ideas of what a good life is)

The only thing stopping them from doing it in their own country is their government... but that is slowly loosening up and becoming more capitalistic. When that happens, unless we get our asses in gear, China is going to dominate the world economy. I think the U.S. knows it could happen, too. There is a department in my company (a Navy analyst company) that specifically studies China... and not just their military, but their social and economic policies.

In any case, the author of this article raises a good discussion, but I don't think he's right.

[seano]

In any case, the author of this article raises a good discussion, but I don't think he's right.
Awesome. Sounds like you read it all, and you have a thought out response to it. Thank you.

While I disagree with things in the article, he raises some good questions and the numbers do not lie. I do think the idea of the "american dream" is falling. The rich are staying rich, and keeping it in the family while the poor in this country continue to grow poorer, and grow in number.

6 weeks of vacation a year would be damn well deserved too. I work too damn hard for some 2 week bullshit.

peaces.

[makku]

well, i still think that the dream is there, but not many people have it and no one is preventing you from following it. All those poor people for the most part have no excuse if they don't want to be poor. If they really wanted riches that badly, they could do it. (that was the point of my paragraph on immigrants to this country)

What I do think is happening is that message of the dream is not getting spread around anymore. Unfortunately (while this is stereotypical, yet true), the democrats blame your situation and want the government to support people. The republicans want to keep the rich rich and the poor poor. Of course this is all in a general sense, not everything they do goes with that statement...

If you want to "make it", go out and break some eggs, make some sacrifices, do whatever you need to do (legally) and it WILL happen. That right has never been taken away from you.

[edit] George Bush certainly doesn't understand this dream...

Clinton did and so did Edwards.

[NastyHabitzCRX]

europe has long been the hub for economic growth, but it only takes a war to tear that to shreds. and theres been 2 world wars there in the last 100 yrs. while their economy was crap ours came to life and prosperd.
the american dream has changed but not like that guy thinks. :beer:

[calboi510]

america IS falling behind in a lot of things that it was once the best...

dont make me bring up the olympic basketball 2004...where did basketball originate?

and what about breakdancing, koreans and french dominate breakdancing, can you imagine french rapping? Americans can't even compete in world competition in which it created.

China is creeping up in their economy, if asia united like the european nations, it would be insane. japan, south korea, china, india...it would be ridiculously insane.

the EU dream is a great idea...but it's going to be difficult and i have a lot of doubts, even though it would be awesome for it to be realized

and most americans wont even realize the american dream...honestly i am seeing more homeless people (transients) in the streets and coming into my work place asking for hand outs

the U.S. have never experienced a wolrd war on their soil, europe experienced both and plus a lot of other wars in its history, you would think that they would have a different perspective to life that many of us cannot even imagine.

what's funny is that europe is more liberal in their way of life than the US, but the U.S. has the most liberal writing, i know because i'm taking many english courses including poetry, creative writing, etc.

and anyone who says i dont give a shit about anyone else in the world or what they think...i feel sorry for them, so closed minded

[infinatenexus]

Man, I swear it sounds like you aren't actually reading the article, looking at the numbers he presents, and thinking about what he is saying.
I read the entire atricle, and I'll say again.. I live the American dream... if somebody is not living the American dream... they should look in a mirror.