Saddam's links to terrorism

[chasloa]

http://www.husseinandterror.com/

but hes not hurting anyone right?

[chasloa]

Oh but we already knew this right?

[S Q A D]

crazy shit ... :shock:

[makku]

no one disputes he was an evil man...

[chasloa]

no one disputes he was an evil man...

Yet it has been disputed that he was linked to terrorism. You know who I'm talking to... All the anti war people

[infinatenexus]

Iraqi ownage..... :beer: Saddam needs to rot in hell, right next to Arafat.

[seano]

Yet it has been disputed that he was linked to terrorism. You know who I'm talking to... All the anti war people
I guess you mean me then, and I never said he hadn't worked with terrorists or done bad things. Would you deny the US had worked with him before also? No? Ok then...

He was, as everything thus far has proven, not connected to 9/11 and Al Queda. THAT is the argument.

[chasloa]

I guess you mean me then, and I never said he hadn't worked with terrorists or done bad things. Would you deny the US had worked with him before also? No? Ok then...

He was, as everything thus far has proven, not connected to 9/11 and Al Queda. THAT is the argument.

Well unfortuanately this is the war on terrorism. Not the war on 9/11. Not the war on Bin Laden. But the war on terrorism. Like it or not that's what it is. I don't understand how anyone can disagree with this war specifically unless they are just against all war no matter what.

[makku]

I think a lot of people wanted several things for this war to happen:

1. A better reason to attack... definitive proof that we were in immediate danger. There really was no smoking gun.
2. Why we needed to attack Iraq first. I mean, there are several other countries with ICBMs and then there's Bin Laden.
3. Help from our allies, no matter what.
4. A better plan of attack and a more solid plan for rebuilding Iraq. People feel this was a rushed decision.

No one doubts that Iraq needed to be free of Saddam. But N. Korea needs to be free of its dictator. Saudi Arabia isn't a democracy and we're not even considering attacking them. China is communist and has nukes... we're not attacking them.

[jb2178]

See here's my problem with the anti-iraqi war people (nothing personal makku) but we tried being diplomatic w/ saddam and it failed like it always had before. We're trying to be diplomatic w/ those other places because we think there's a chance of reasoning with these people. On top of the fact that even though those countries do have WMDs they've never used those weapons on their own people like saddam had - he proved to the world that with very little provoking he could/would gas thousands of people - I haven't heard of china, north korea, iran or anybody else doing that shit. So in my opinion we did the right thing by kicking saddams ass - the world needed to know there was going to be hell to pay for any asshole country that harbored terrorists - and we all remember Bush telling us this war on terror wasn't going to be over quickly - it was goign to be a long hard fight and now that it's turned into exactly what they said it would the anti-war people are all upset... sorry but in order to do this thing and do it right we can't just go bomb falluja into a parking lot - that would be the easy way - we have to send our boys (& girls) in and they have to die so the iraqi people can be free from those militant radicals and that's what all this is about

[seano]

Well unfortuanately this is the war on terrorism. Not the war on 9/11. Not the war on Bin Laden. But the war on terrorism. Like it or not that's what it is. I don't understand how anyone can disagree with this war specifically unless they are just against all war no matter what.
I was pointing out, what I thought you were referring to... that bush's claims that saddam was linked to 9/11. I mean, that's been the discussion for over a year now and you are now spinning that into something else. Just like bush has done. WMDs, links to 9/11, then finally we just had to remove him for the people's sake.

No one ever said he wasn't a bad guy. You act like people have said so.

[chasloa]

spinning that into something else. Just like bush has done. WMDs, links to 9/11, then finally we just had to remove him for the people's sake.
interesting. bad intelligence=spin? And FWIW Bush never linked Saddam to 9/11.....

I can't tell you how many times I've heard democrats say that Saddam was not a threat. He was. That is the point. No spin

[makku]

See here's my problem with the anti-iraqi war people (nothing personal makku) but we tried being diplomatic w/ saddam and it failed like it always had before. We're trying to be diplomatic w/ those other places because we think there's a chance of reasoning with these people. On top of the fact that even though those countries do have WMDs they've never used those weapons on their own people like saddam had - he proved to the world that with very little provoking he could/would gas thousands of people - I haven't heard of china, north korea, iran or anybody else doing that shit. So in my opinion we did the right thing by kicking saddams ass - the world needed to know there was going to be hell to pay for any asshole country that harbored terrorists - and we all remember Bush telling us this war on terror wasn't going to be over quickly - it was goign to be a long hard fight and now that it's turned into exactly what they said it would the anti-war people are all upset... sorry but in order to do this thing and do it right we can't just go bomb falluja into a parking lot - that would be the easy way - we have to send our boys (& girls) in and they have to die so the iraqi people can be free from those militant radicals and that's what all this is about
i understand what you're saying... i'm not completely anti-war. I know it's a little bit of hindsight, but really the war was a little rushed. Things are worse than what the administration anticipated, that's for sure.

As for China, OMG, you need to remember some history. Remember when tanks ran over student demonstrators in Tiananmen Square? Some of those protestors are STILL in jail. There are stats that says that since China's current government was founded, more people have been killed than under HITLER AND STALIN COMBINED! That is mindblowing. Hell, my girlfriend's mother (and her family) was sent to a re-education camp when she was 6 years old during the cultural revolution. Because of that, she got sick and has had a heart condition since.

As for N. Korea, that country is as fucked up if not more than Iraq was. I saw this crazy documentary that followed a N. Korean family trying to sneak across the border into China. Basically, they couldn't find a way across so they lived in a hole in the hillside that was camoflaged so that no one would find them. The father would go out and work in a nearby village for money. This family had 2 daughters and a son. They couldn't support all the children so they took their two daughters to an orphanage. Eventually, they couldn't take care of the son either, so they took him there too. They also follow the story of a boy who sneaked across the border just to earn money. If they're caught by China, they get sent back to N. Korea. If the N. Korean gov't learns you're trying to leave, they send you to a re-education camp from which no one ever returns.

It's bad. I'm not saying Iraq was not worthy, just that there are plenty of similar places... are we going to invade them all? I think that the war might have started a dangerous precedent for this country. Only time will tell.

[jb2178]

true - this whole thing is fucked - I'm gonna go live in a camoflaged hole in the ground

just remember ignorance in bliss and thanks to the internet the people of the world are more informed (?mislead?) then ever before

[makku]

our isolationist policy in the early 20th century RULED! .... maybe not

[rotory20]

I think a lot of people wanted several things for this war to happen:

1. A better reason to attack... definitive proof that we were in immediate danger. There really was no smoking gun.
2. Why we needed to attack Iraq first. I mean, there are several other countries with ICBMs and then there's Bin Laden.
3. Help from our allies, no matter what.
4. A better plan of attack and a more solid plan for rebuilding Iraq. People feel this was a rushed decision.

No one doubts that Iraq needed to be free of Saddam. But N. Korea needs to be free of its dictator. Saudi Arabia isn't a democracy and we're not even considering attacking them. China is communist and has nukes... we're not attacking them.
1 There is a smoking gun. Bin laden admited it on the Arabic news networks over there...
2. Iraq is a huge funding arena..they have more money than any rock star in the states..
3. Our allies are helping..but to an extent we have asked them to chill out.
Its that thing like on the playground..This is our fight, and to some of us we have lost friends, family, Its personnel..
4. Its hard to rebuild when the extremeists who dont even live in the country prevent the people from helping. All the wild radicals are not even from iraq or saudi..they are foreigners..and they all could give 2 shits about land or anything, the just want to kill us..and they dont care if they die or not..
been there done that..Its all for real.!!

Korea and china are at a peace agreement with us for now..North korea, well their technology is just not up to par..and the middle east is what supplied them with their technology, which is from the 50s and 60s...
Its not that much of a threat. lets just say that there are preventive measures....

And to all those out there that think that we are not at risk..Just look around you..look at your neighbors...There was a specific terrorist organization right down the street here..right down the street from where I live, in San Antonio..
And you know how many people although they appear friendly are really just collecting information....Little things add up real quick to make a big picture..

[makku]

Korea and china are at a peace agreement with us for now..North korea, well their technology is just not up to par..and the middle east is what supplied them with their technology, which is from the 50s and 60s...
Its not that much of a threat. lets just say that there are preventive measures....

True, N. Korea's tech is not the best... but remember when they shot a missle OVER japan?? Now, back in the day when Japan was a real badass, they worked Korea over pretty good. There are a ton of Korean people who still speak japanese fluently because they were pretty much taken over there for "slave" labor. I wonder if Japan is in direct risk of a nuclear attack from N. Korea. (I doubt it... but I'm speculating). Japan is our #1 ally in the sense that we have to protect them... we made them give up having a military, remember?

Yeah, as far as China, we're at peace with them. But they want our money, that's why. And we think there are opportunities we can exploit over there. As soon as China stops relying on us for imports/exports, the shit is going to hit the fan. Let me make this clear, we already have plans to attack China in case any shit with Taiwan gets started.

Let me play Devil's Advocate here:
Now, this is all speculation. And some of this will be highly unlikely. But we've shown our cards when we invaded iraq. We have told everyone that we are a threat. That can be both good and bad. Good because now they're less likely to try shit. Bad because now, they know we will more than likely respond to threats and they will shore up against them. It could be another arms race... who knows?

[seano]

I can't tell you how many times I've heard democrats say that Saddam was not a threat. He was. That is the point. No spin
I think you are referring to people saying he was not an immediate threat, which he clearly was not. The reasoning for going to war with Iraq is that they had WMD, and were an immediate threat. Clearly they were not.

And earlier in the post, you said this is for "anti war" people, now you are saying this is for "Democrats"... make up your mind. Maybe if you didn't use labels so much you wouldn't have such a hard time addressing issues.

Saddam is a bad person. No one denied that.
Our original intention for going into Iraq was NOT to "liberate" the people. Fact.

And there WAS a huge spin, when we kept changing our reasoning for going to war. No one can deny that. It was spun and spun again until we thought we had found our best "argument" for going to war. Badintelligence has no part of us spinning it... if they did, we would have said "my bad" when there were no WMDs, and left Iraq. But we decided to spin it and make it "operation freedom" or whatever it's called.

[chasloa]

Uryy4m....

[S Q A D]

Uryy4m....
huh ??

[chasloa]

Pcmcia...

[seano]

Uryy4m....ha... not true young padawon. ;)

[Sonny7730]

uhh...is chas okay? he has not posted anything that makes sense yet

[seano]

Yeah, in like 3 or 4 months now.

;) jk brother. :)

[calboi510]

the bush administration stated that we are going to war because of "weapons of mass destruction", but there was none...

now we are "liberating" them, what about Saudi Arabia??? why not liberate china as well while we are at it (their million man army), since we care so much about the rest of the world and their welfare...

this is all bs, this war is in our best interest...and a lot of people know this, but they dont give a fuck thoughy, blood for oil doesn't bother them at all.

and i hate it when people use fucken labels...

[infinatenexus]

http://www.intelligence.org.il/sp/default.htm

BTW: Unless you know Hebrew, you can select english to view the page.

[infinatenexus]

this is all bs, this war is in our best interest...and a lot of people know this, but they dont give a fuck thoughy, blood for oil doesn't bother them at all.

Well if the war is over oil.. why havent we gotten any yet?

Oh wait.. we found more weapons they hid... I guess its not possiable to hide WMD's in Iraq is it?http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,usa1_111904.00.html?ESRC=army.nl

[calboi510]

does Haliburton ring a bell?

has anyone seen farheheit 9/11, like actually seen the whole thing? even if you dont like moore, just check that shit out, shit my brothers and cousin are in the military, my brother is a republican, but after seeing that video and reading certain articles, he voted for kerry.

and he's still a republican and he's still in the army. he's expecting to get shipped over seas and i just dont like that idea...i almost joined the military because college is expensive...but the war persuaded me not to join, if it was a war that i strongly agreed with, shit i'd joined right away (not just for the money)

[Rexinre]

Tell me what you know about Halliburton? I bet its all that you saw on moore(ons) dumb movie. It’s crazy what people will buy into simply by watching 1 movie! Since you like movies so much watch fahrenhype 911 and then tell me what you think, 2 sides to every story silly, oh and then try and form your own opinion.

I am sorry if your brother is easily persuaded but when he comes back he won't be.

[Rexinre]

Well if the war is over oil.. why havent we gotten any yet?

Oh wait.. we found more weapons they hid... I guess its not possiable to hide WMD's in Iraq is it?http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,usa1_111904.00.html?ESRC=army.nl
Nice find Staff... here is another, I guess the main stream media forgot to report them huh?
http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php?story_id_key=5108

[Blanco]

You all realize that by living in fear of terrorist, you're actually allowing them to win...don't you? Wow, holy fucking shit Batman, they've found weapons...whodduh thunk. In fact, they found enough weapons in Fallujah to stage an insurgency (revolution) across the entire country. Imagine that, the people shooting at us actually have weapons. Oh and why were they able to steal 250,000 tons of explosives? That's right, we didn't care about those silly things when there was a country to overthrow and WMD's to try to find. My point being, the fact that weapons have been found, is hardly profound. Iraq has not been capable of producing chemical or biological agents, at all. They aren't there, they don't exist, none will be found. So your points are...what? You expected our guys to find spears for weapon caches?

This "war" is wrong for several reasons and will ultimately fail. It's going to be as productive as Vietnam and the War on Drugs. The way this is going, it's going to turn into another Vietnam. Do any of you really think that there's any shortage of people in that rather large area who want to fight us? The best way to secure peace has never been through violence, destruction and hypocrisy. I'm not anti-war, I'm just against this "war".

[infinatenexus]

Hey Blanco.... next time you take a vacation.... plan to take it in reality.

BTW: You might want to focus more on facts, and less on propaganda.

[Rexinre]

Iraq has not been capable of producing chemical or biological agents, at all. They aren't there, they don't exist, none will be found. You must be kidding...

Hey pass me the good shit you are smoking... People like you still make me sick!!!



They found vials of saran gas in Falluja last week. Hey I know... why don't you research before you open your big mouth next time. I will find the link tomorrow at work for you because I don't expect you to take some initiative to look and read, when you can just watch a movie on it. Hahaha

[infinatenexus]

You must be kidding...

Hey pass me the good shit you are smoking... People like you still make me sick!!!

You must realize, people like Blanco also said Hitler was no threat.:neutral:

[Rexinre]

Weapons of mass distruction with a link to the UN report with more info on WMD and pictures!
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_1.html


Or more of the link from Saddam and Al Qaeda

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/167gwjtp.asp

Hey I know... what about a link that Saddam to Osama

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13679

[Rexinre]

Give me more time and I will find a lot more!

[Rexinre]

Ok here is a great link... http://www.iraqwatch.org/un/index.html

[infinatenexus]

http://www.pbase.com/kburch/the_picture_from_iraq_you_wont_see_in_the_news&page=all

[infinatenexus]

http://massgraves.info/

[Rexinre]

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB80/

[infinatenexus]

Hey Rex.... you shoul dhave put an ownage meter in this thread...bauhaaaaa

[Rexinre]

Yeah well, I don't want to make it too obvious ;)

[chasloa]

this thread is the greatest

[Rexinre]

this thread is the greatest
But your avatar isn't ;)

[OZ Racing]

Theres never going to be a conclusive answer as to why the war on Iraq. I know there's ppl here on the military, but they dont speak for everyone else over at iraq, or everyone else in the military. Many soldiers at fallujah have asked themsleves the same, why they're there, most just want to be back home, but all of them are determined to fight for whats right. It doesnt matter anymore why the war on iraq, or who or what started it. Others that we dont have any influence with, will decide and justify for it.

The only answer there is now, is that we have to win the war. Its too late to try to go back and find answers that wont change anything anymore. All is need to be done is just Win the war.
I support our troops (no I dont have to put a ribbon on my car to prove it), I support the war on terrorism, and I hurt for every inocent casualty on anyside, and I try to make sure that no fallen soldier on our side goes unapriciated on my mind. Suporting our troops is what needs to be done instead of asking questions or justifying things which is too late for that and will only bring up even more questions.

Now it doesnt matter how good anyone can quote anything I said or post links, and generalize it into a inferior character statement, and take a self-righteous superior stand, which just looses your credibility more than anything else. Or even if you support it. No one can argue that what needs to be done now is just Win the war. And I hope it doesnt take any longer. God bless our troops..

[zeus zore]

war on terror.. yeah right.. it is all propeganda (spell check plz.) who really knows the truth.. maybe bush.. hell no else does...

[chasloa]

war on terror.. yeah right.. it is all propaganda (spell check plz.) who really knows the truth.. maybe bush.. hell no else does...
No offense, but as an American, I don't give a fuck what someone in another country thinks about my security or my countries' motives

[Rexinre]

war on terror.. yeah right.. it is all propeganda (spell check plz.) who really knows the truth.. maybe bush.. hell no else does...
Are you serious? What was 9-11 a joke to you? Damn man open your eyes!

[infinatenexus]

war on terror.. yeah right.. it is all propeganda (spell check plz.) who really knows the truth.. maybe bush.. hell no else does...
LMAO.... Your nation would have been pummeled long ago if it wasn't for America. Talk shit when you have a military that is a match for our boy scouts.

[Zulu]

Question... does anyone know what kind of weapons they are finding, specifically. Also, what kind of delivery system did Iraq have in place to make them a direct threat? As I recall, Bush was asking Iraq to disarm before the war started saying that Saddam had weapons that went against UN charters which stated that Iraqi missiles were only allowed to travel a certain distance, which they had exceeded. Does anyone know the range of these missiles? Whatever it was, I doudt the were of the Intercontinental Variety. Which begs the question, why are we so concerned with their WMD's if they have no way to reach us?

I dont really see an end to the war on terror. It takes nothing to be a terrorist other then the will to destroy and hate. Religous zeal is not a prerequist to blow things up and cause mayhem. In fact, the current generation of terrorist will eventually discover that to achieve their goals, they only need disposable soldiers, and those arent hard to come by in the middle east, and are apparently becoming easier to find in the US, hence the groups of terroists living down the street. I have a feeling the this war will become the next war on drugs and be drug out for years with no real end, until soemthing better comes along. Have you heard about the war on drugs recently? How is it doing? Have they met their goals? Think about the similarties between the two:

1) No real front
2) Hard to pin point members and follow movements
3) No solid mass of troops
4) Very taxing on resources
5) International effort on the enemies part
6) Regard for human life is virtually non existant to enemy

Lastly, I think that terrorism in the US is a threat that is blown way out of proportion. Do you know how easy and cheap it would be to organize and execute a number of small scale attacks in the US? The terrorists dont have to do another 911 to make us run for cover. Think about how easy it would be to do it. Walk in a mall with a bag and go to the bathroom. Did you get stopped? Did anyone look at you weird? Did anyone even care? Most likely there will be a no for each of those questions. If a terrorist wanted to they could walk in a mall, drop off a bag and leave and no one would care. I had to do that at the airport for my wife about six months ago. I sprinted through the airport with a book bag and gave it to my wife and sprinted out. No on said a word to me or even cared.

If a mall in Smalltown, USA exploded tomorrow and it could be linked to a terrorist faction, the US would go on lock down. The media would have a hayday. They would spin it to the point that people would be in a frenzy. It would be just that easy. So do you really think that terrorist threat here is high? I don't. Nothing has happened here since 911. So how secure do we need to be? Was the Patriot Act worth this new illusion of security? Look around and see how secure you really are. It does not take much intellegence to wreck havoc anywhere, including here. Which also begs the question, how much intellegence do you think these guys are collecting? Do you think they care how you are getting to work? Where you eat lunch? Where your kids go to school? NO!!!! You dont need that kind of information to create terror, unless you are targeting someone, which doesnt happen very often for terrorists. I have homework, so I relinquish my soap box for now.

[makku]

well said...

as for terrorists who don't rely on religious zeal... anyone remember Timothy McVeigh?

It's far too late to do anything about the war in iraq. It's happened... all we can do is finish the job properly.

But what they should be doing is tightening the borders so we don't get any more terrorists coming here, passing stricter gun control laws so there are REAL background checks for owners, getting some SERIOUS foreign diplomacy going so that we can convince other countries to make their airports safer (and less hospitable to terrorist groups).

But Zulu is right... if they wanted to do something, it wouldn't take much to do it. The big problem is that they don't have enough operatives here. Which leads to my border issue... if illegal Mexicans can get across the border, who says the terrorists can't? Of course, our gov't institutions are protected against land threats... there is a ton of security at the Pentagon and most of the center of D.C. is closed to traffic. But, what would stop a guy from driving a van full of gasoline and ammonium nitrate (from fertilizer) into a mall... say, the Mall of America (Minnesota)? Sure, you can't buy the stuff directly, but you can steal a bag off a farm or something. Gasoline is available anywhere... and the deaths caused would be just as catastrophic as the Twin Towers... all innocent.

Zulu, i don't think terrorism is overblown, but they certainly aren't dealing with it well.

[infinatenexus]

Hey Zulu.. nice September 10th out look on things.

[Zulu]

Hey Zulu.. nice September 10th out look on things.

911 was caused by a number of problems stemming from the CIA and the FBI and the laws governing their interaction, among other things. No amount of security is going to stop someone from waking up one morning joining some terrorists and blowing up a McDonalds. At the rate that things are going, I wouldn't be suprised if more people like McVeigh, Columbine Kids, and others start popping up because they see that terrorism as a way to solve their problems. How do you stop that? Speaking of Columbine, if that happened today would it not be viewed as an act of terrorism? How do you stop terrorist events like that? You can't. I dont have a september 10th outlook, just a realistic one.

Any answers for the first questions of my previous thread?

I realize that we have to try and prevent terrorism, nobody wants to live in fear like they do in the middle east. It seems like a fools errand though. And the truth is we do live in fear, even if it isnt as much as others in the world. It is an unfortunate paradox. We have to live in fear and try to weed out the terrorists. Our very actions though encourage the terrorists and make them more resolved then ever to destroy us. If we stop fighting they win. If we keep fighting, well.... lets just say we probably wont have a definitive victory.

[infinatenexus]

your right.. we should just roll over... and play dead.. with any luck.. the terrorist will go away...

BTW: Not all of us live in fear... quit basing your opinion on assumptions