y8 trans, found the problem

[FMYStreetRacer]

well i found out why so many y8 trans pop out of second today. let's start off with the story. i have a 92 cx with a z6 swap and a y8 trans. ever since i got the trans it has popped out of 2nd gear. i have tried all different kinds of trans fluid and the best was regular syncromesh. as time went by the popping out of 2nd got worse and worse. so bad that the only time i could get it to go into gear was when slamming it in while racing. well that came to a end friday night. so i decided to take a spare y8 trans that i had and install it today. i took a ride around the block afterwards and it to popped out of 2nd gear like my first one did at it's earliest stage. i know that this is a common problem with y8 trans' but this is unreal. i decided to see what was causing it to happen and when i found out what it was i couldn't beleive that there hasn't been a recall out to fix it.

i pulled the trans apart to find that the reason the trans would fall out of gear at first and then it kept getting worse was cause the 1-2 shift fork was bent. the whole reason that i got this trans was cause everyone kept saying to get it cause it has steel shift forks. yeah thin ass steel 1-2 shift fork! this is gonna be a problem that i'm sure every y8 trans out there will have. i found that when i put the trans into 2nd gear that the shift fork wasn't pulling it up all the way into 2nd gear. so while i was driving with little load on the trans it would pop out and when i let off the gas it pops out of gear. and as i kept on racing with it it just kept on bending more and more till finally it wouldn't go in anymore. everyone kept saying that it was a motor mount but i knew it wasn't. it also ending up killing the syncro pretty bad. i might try and put a bead weld around the shift fork where the collar rides on it and then grind it down till it's flat and then weld the whole fork so it's stronger.


here's a video of the shifter fork all the way in 2nd gear and holding the 2nd gear and you can see hot it doesn't turn, it is almost there.

http://s6.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=71E64D0A7574F5AE5C8CA0F3983E42DF

2nd is a pick of the bent shift fork.


http://img82.exs.cx/img82/8773/000_1090.jpg

[Rexinre]

Alright bro, nice find. When is she going to be fixed?

[FMYStreetRacer]

Alright bro, nice find. When is she going to be fixed?i don't know if this trans is fixable and i don't really have the money to buy another. i need a new clutch to among allot of other things so i might just have to deal with the new trans poping out of 2nd for now till it's get's like the other one did. i wish that i could find a low cost way to fix this.

[Honda4VW]

Kind of OT..but I might be able to help you since I have a y8 tranny sitting in my garage torn apart right now. What do you need?

[FMYStreetRacer]

Kind of OT..but I might be able to help you since I have a y8 tranny sitting in my garage torn apart right now. What do you need?
OT? but anyways i could basically use the gearset and shifter forks but i guess what i really need is the counshafter gearset and 1-2 shift fork.

[Honda4VW]

Shit..I just remember that I transplanted my y8 gears with my y7 fd
The main and countershaft I currently have are from a y7

[FMYStreetRacer]

Shit..I just remember that I transplanted my y8 gears with my y7 fd
The main and countershaft I currently have are from a y7
you have the hift forks from them?

[Bizzar]

hmmmm...I'm taking my intercooler down to a buddy of mine to have my mounting tabs re-welded. While we were bs'n tonight he was telling me about some of things he has been welding using titanium. I bet he can fabricate the entire shift rod and forks out of titanium now theres the ticket :) I'll toss the question out there. The y8 design looks much more simple to duplicate than the ex/si aluminum type.

[jwn7]

funny you posted this, as i'm having the same problem. i beat the living crap out of my car every weekend and do pretty much the same around town daily, so i guess i should expect this.

at autox this sunday, everytime i would lift off it would 'pop' right out of second, the only damn gear i need. bad day as i was a good 5-6 seconds off the pace while fighting the tranny.:cussing:

i'm going to replace the drivers side mount with the hcp one & do a fluid change and see if it 'goes away'. fingers will be crossed.

but i'm not sure why it's so intermittent. on the way home from autox, it stayed in second the whole time, and i was purposely revving it up high and lifting off hard. and it didn't happen once.

it also happens more frequently when the engine is cold first thing in the morning.

if i purposely hold the shifter back into 2nd (i hate doing this & driving w/ one hand) it stays in just fine. this makes me suspect the shiftlinkage, which has a lot of play while in gear; and yes, i have the ES bushings for it.

[Honda4VW]

you have the hift forks from them?
Yes I have them, out and nearly ready to go if you need them

[FMYStreetRacer]

Yes I have them, out and nearly ready to go if you need themyep i'm sure i will need them. how much you lokking for?


and for the guy with the trans that popping out as wel. replace the shifter fork now while you can!!!! it will cause some serious damage to the syncro and gear. it cost $300 for that damn gear and syncro assem. you have to buy it as a set. buy the $50 fork and put it in!

[Honda4VW]

Got anything to trade? I don't want much for them, i would like enough to either get replacements later or a crap tranny at another time. Unless you want me to send them down, and replace them when you get the opportunity.

[99ekhatch]

FMIDRC Racer...did you need the mainshaft or countershaft, or both? I should be able to get those parts shipped out to you today or tomorrow if you want them.

[FMYStreetRacer]

i'm not sure yet what i need guys. i just got more trannies given to me and i haven't opened them yet. one guy is waiting to get it out of his car. list a price that you want for the mainshaft, counter shaft and 1-2 shift fork seperatly and if the prices are good i might buy them just cause.

[Honda4VW]

i'm not sure yet what i need guys. i just got more trannies given to me and i haven't opened them yet. one guy is waiting to get it out of his car. list a price that you want for the mainshaft, counter shaft and 1-2 shift fork seperatly and if the prices are good i might buy them just cause.
Ill only part mine out if you really really need it. I don't want to scrap the tranny rebuild, just looking to help you out. Got to help support the d-series community!

[FMYStreetRacer]

Ill only part mine out if you really really need it. I don't want to scrap the tranny rebuild, just looking to help you out. Got to help support the d-series community!
cool thanks. i will be sure to post back if i need any parts. i have to get this other y8 trans from the guy and tear it down. he said that it never popped out of 2nd but he said that grinds in 3rd.

[ZCspeed]

Why not use a 92-95 case and shift forks?

[FMYStreetRacer]

Why not use a 92-95 case and shift forks?
can i use a 92-95 case with a y8 diff and gear sets?

[ZCspeed]

If you want to use the y8 diff you would need an EX case, as the bearing size is larger. I put a similar setup together today, 97 EX gears in a 92 DX case, but I had to use the 92 DX differential carrier to make it work because of the bearing size difference. I just switched ring gears and it should work fine. The car this was going into was a 95 EX, and it's original transmission shared the larger bearing size with the 97 EX Transmission. I assume you could put DX bearings on an EX differential and use the EX differential in the DX case, but I have never tried to do it.

[FMYStreetRacer]

If you want to use the y8 diff you would need an EX case, as the bearing size is larger. I put a similar setup together today, 97 EX gears in a 92 DX case, but I had to use the 92 DX differential carrier to make it work because of the bearing size difference. I just switched ring gears and it should work fine. The car this was going into was a 95 EX, and it's original transmission shared the larger bearing size with the 97 EX Transmission. I assume you could put DX bearings on an EX differential and use the EX differential in the DX case, but I have never tried to do it.
i have an extra cx trans laying around. i wonder if i switch the ring gears if the diff is still as strong?

[ZCspeed]

Take a visual of them side by side and see, they may be exactly the same. If the y8 diff looks stronger, put the cx bearings on it and use it. I assume that would work.

[FMYStreetRacer]

Take a visual of them side by side and see, they may be exactly the same. If the y8 diff looks stronger, put the cx bearings on it and use it. I assume that would work.
any info on this thread transzex? i'm looking to pull the trans and build a good one and install it saturday. i have a full shop with press etc to pull bearings and gears and what not.

[transzex]

CX/DX bearings have a 35mm ID, EX has 40mm ID, they won't work.

My rule of thumb, leave the diff with the case, change the gearsets and shim the mainshaft.

I have 2-3 DX/CX/VX cases with EX or close ratio gearsets inside them.

[Honda4VW]

I have 2-3 DX/CX/VX cases with EX or close ratio gearsets inside them.
I have one, and its giving me an annoying rattle

[FMYStreetRacer]

CX/DX bearings have a 35mm ID, EX has 40mm ID, they won't work.

My rule of thumb, leave the diff with the case, change the gearsets and shim the mainshaft.

I have 2-3 DX/CX/VX cases with EX or close ratio gearsets inside them.
cool thanks transzex. so here's what i should do right? i'm gonna take a cx/vx/dx case and put in a set of y8 gearsets and use the a000 trans shiftforks as well. this should all work right? oh yeah and i'm gonna swap the ring gear from a y8 into the a000 case. btw you wouldn't happen to have any info on how to shim the gearsets correctly would you? i have just bbeen leaving them in their spots when i remove the gearsets but i don't wanna mess up and have to pull the trans out again. thanks again transzex for your help.

[transzex]

your gonna try Y8 gearsets into a S20 case????????

Good LUCK!!!!!!!!!

[ZCspeed]

No Luck Necessary - Works fine. I already did this using the s20 diff with the y8 ring gear.

your gonna try Y8 gearsets into a S20 case????????

Good LUCK!!!!!!!!!

[FMYStreetRacer]

your gonna try Y8 gearsets into a S20 case????????

Good LUCK!!!!!!!!!
you saying that this won't work? i'm gonna pull my trans out in about an hour and try it. if it's not gonna work please let me know so that i can wait till later. cause if i take it and it doesn't work it will be a while till i get another trans shipped to me.

[Honda4VW]

your gonna try Y8 gearsets into a S20 case????????

Good LUCK!!!!!!!!!
What is your reasoning?

[FMYStreetRacer]

your gonna try Y8 gearsets into a S20 case????????

Good LUCK!!!!!!!!!it works like a champ. i took a ???? p20 a000 trans that i had laying around in my storage unit. took my old y8 trans and swapped the ring gear onto the p20 diff. i took the y8 gearsets out of my current trans and put them in. i had to swap the input shaft bearing that is at the top of the shaft cause it was too big for the new case, not the normal input bearing. when putting the case civer back on my buddy noticed that the 2 bearings at the top of my countershaft were bad so he swapped those over for me. put it all back tongether and drove it home and ran a few cars on the way of course. turns out that the other trans that i had just put in my car had a bad shift fork on top of the bearings being bad. mods if you wanna put this in the DIY or make it a stickey that would be cool cause i know that this a comon problem with the y8 trans and this is a cheap was to fix it since you can get these p20/a000 trans for next to nothing.


here's some pics to go with it all.


p20 case with y8 ring gear installed. http://img74.exs.cx/img74/4185/000_1093.jpg

y8 gearsets in with p20 shift forks. http://img74.exs.cx/img74/3900/000_1098.jpg

here you can see the differnce in the diff bearing size. http://img74.exs.cx/img74/5461/000_1101.jpg

this pic shows the trans in the 2nd gear postition now with the p20 shift forks. see not how it is in all the way as before with the shift fork it wasn't in gear. http://img74.exs.cx/img74/246/000_1103.jpg

[Honda4VW]

Nice job man....case looks nice and clean too


One thing I found wrong after I did my entire tranny swap..

I get a high pitched rattle around 37-3800 rpm, and it only lasts a second. Not quite sure why, but it seems to be internal tranny. Maybe this is what bone says is a problem with the gear swaps?

[Rexinre]

WOW, thats a great job... What size diff bearing is it? 40mm?

[FMYStreetRacer]

Nice job man....case looks nice and clean too


One thing I found wrong after I did my entire tranny swap..

I get a high pitched rattle around 37-3800 rpm, and it only lasts a second. Not quite sure why, but it seems to be internal tranny. Maybe this is what bone says is a problem with the gear swaps?
i didn't actually swap any gears just gear sets, ring gear, shift forks and case. the gears sets are from the 2nd y8 trans that i just put in the other day that was popping out of gear as well.


rexinre...... the vtec trans has 40mm bearings and the non vtec has 35mm (?) bearings. since i put vtec gear sets in a non vtec case i couldn't use those bearings. i might have been able to press thos ebearings off the y8 diff and put 35mm bearings on but i don't know for sure. either way i'd say just as a precation to anyone that owns a y8 trans..... if you come across a p20 case for cheap buy it up. you will need one day for sure!

[FMYStreetRacer]

looks like i lost my picture hosting.

[transzex]

I'd never tried the gearswap, didn't know if it would work..........GREAT!!!!!!!!!!

[FMYStreetRacer]

I'd never tried the gearswap, didn't know if it would work..........GREAT!!!!!!!!!!
works like a champ. i'm still smiling http://www.d-series.org/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Honda4VW]

i didn't actually swap any gears just gear sets, ring gear, shift forks and case. the gears sets are from the 2nd y8 trans that i just put in the other day that was popping out of gear as well.
Thats exactly what I did too

[FMYStreetRacer]

Thats exactly what I did too
you might not have everthing shimmed right. i just made sure to use the same shims that were in the case, not the ones with the gearsets. maybe i just got lucky but it works just as good as new.


the last time i put in a clutch i also found the reason that input shaft bearings go bad so that will be my next project when i put my new clutch in soon.

[Honda4VW]

maybe i just got lucky but it works just as good as new.

Well, mine runs perfect, no grinds int he trany, solid shifts....perfect

Except for the noise.

Not even sure its coming out of the tranny, not much time to mobilize under the car these days. I have have trouble finding time to adjust my timing, and that only takes 15 minutes!

[FMYStreetRacer]

Well, mine runs perfect, no grinds int he trany, solid shifts....perfect

Except for the noise.

Not even sure its coming out of the tranny, not much time to mobilize under the car these days. I have have trouble finding time to adjust my timing, and that only takes 15 minutes!
i hear ya. if everything works ok i wouldn't worry about it.

[All Show]

I am a bit confused (more confused than usual). So are you saying I can take my good working Y7 tranny and fix my Z6 tranny? My Z6 tranny won't go into second gear some time and if it does it will kick out same as described earlier in this discuction. I don't realy know much about trannies so if it can be done can you decribe how to do it.

[FMYStreetRacer]

I am a bit confused (more confused than usual). So are you saying I can take my good working Y7 tranny and fix my Z6 tranny? My Z6 tranny won't go into second gear some time and if it does it will kick out same as described earlier in this discuction. I don't realy know much about trannies so if it can be done can you decribe how to do it.na, that's not what i'm saying in this case. i'd take the z6 trans apart though and see what the problem is. you can probly find a another 92-95 trans for next to nothing and fix the problem.

[Jaker]

Hey Guys, Bone,


Will the shift forks from a cable tranny work in a P20 tranny? I have a complete 93 EX tranny with everything in fabulous condition, except for a busted shift fork, and I have 3-4 cable trannies in various stages of dissasembly.

Thanks

Jacques

[FMYStreetRacer]

Hey Guys, Bone,


Will the shift forks from a cable tranny work in a P20 tranny? I have a complete 93 EX tranny with everything in fabulous condition, except for a busted shift fork, and I have 3-4 cable trannies in various stages of dissasembly.

Thanks

Jacques
yes they will work. my buddy at work was rebuilding his 90-91 crx si trans and he lost all the check balls. i gave him my set of cx shift forks (should have kept them) and he put them in and is still driving the car till this day (89 dx hatch with a d15b converted to obd-1 and a si trans).

[a1320honda]

ok, im a little new to the tranny situation, but my problem is i got a 98 y8 that grinded in third. and i shifted super hard at the track the other night, now, second gets stuck sometimes and i almost feels like first is not in all the way. its like the shifter sits a half inch farther back in second and the same in first. so is the 1-2 fork bent, i also have a 92 dx tranny pulled apart, can i use the gearsets out of the y8 in the dx using the dx forks and all. i know this wont cure the third gear grind. also, what about using 88-91 si gearsets in a hydro case?

[transzex]

only one person has used cable gearsets in a hyrdo tranny, and it required some artful shimming.

It was Bisi BTW, see even I'm still learning!!!!!!

[stmotorsports]

just wanted to chime in here- I have the same rattle, mine sounds like its more in the motor tho...
i know if you go a little too tight with setting valve clearances you can get a rattle like that, might want to chk your timing belt tensioner too- too tight on that & you'll get the same noise
still have to find a minute to get under mine & see exactly what it is...

[berettagtz117]

Damn I missed this thread !! Nice info~ So much for me pulling SI tranny to put in Spare Y8!! Rep 4 you!

[FooK]

damn do you force into gears n shift abusively or something?

bbka has been raping a y8 tranny for a long ass time without a single problem from it. I know several others who have no issues with y8 trannies.

also, do you happen to know what year your trans is? I believe later in the 6th gen they made changes, like 97 or 98

[FMYStreetRacer]

damn do you force into gears n shift abusively or something?

bbka has been raping a y8 tranny for a long ass time without a single problem from it. I know several others who have no issues with y8 trannies.

also, do you happen to know what year your trans is? I believe later in the 6th gen they made changes, like 97 or 98
the first one (the gearsets that i have right now) was from a 2000 ex, the 2nd was from a 96. both were identical inside. these trannies were dmaged before i ever put them in my car. i got the 2000 one for $40 and the 96 one for free. if i had more 92-95 shift forks i would build another trans as a spare.

[stmotorsports]

i'm getting a y7 trans for next to nothing in the next few days, I think I'm gonna try welding up some reinforcing plates on the shift forks to see if I can get a solution to this.

I just need to find out if I can use my spare z6 final drive in the y7 trans when I put it back together...?

[transzex]

without stripping a Y7 countershaft down to compare, I cannot say for sure if the Z6 FD will work.

I would think so. Of the 6 Y trannys I've worked on, I never need to tear one that far apart.

[stmotorsports]

I just checked the Honda parts cat just for the hell of it and apparently the final drive set is the same for z6 & y8 trans. Interestingly enough, the ring gear is also the same for 89-91 civic si and 88-91 crx si as well. The countershaft is z6/y8 only.

[oscarmayer]

with a welder liek i have and some high grade steel the forks could be reinforced and then i bet they would hold up. :) If ya ship (or get them to me when we meet up to get you the cage and otehr parts) me the forks, I'll even do it for you.

[FMYStreetRacer]

with a welder liek i have and some high grade steel the forks could be reinforced and then i bet they would hold up. :) If ya ship (or get them to me when we meet up to get you the cage and otehr parts) me the forks, I'll even do it for you.

thjis might work but keep in mind that the gear rides far over the shift fork area. i also thought about straightening them up and welding them so that they'd be stiffer but it just wasn't a sure thing. so i just decided to go with a p20 case and shift forks.

[transzex]

oscar is clueless. period!