best tranny for FI

[Egizzle6]

I know it best to have a longer geared tranny to get the most out of your turbo before you have to shift instead of having a shorter gear ratio'd tranny and have to shift before you hit full boost. How would a CX tranny be to a EX tranny like the z6 or y8 tranny's?

[Rexinre]

CX tranny is a good tranny for boost. The only thing is they will prob have a 35mm bearing in it so no quaife lsd if you plan on it.

[kyosoeg6]

when i was boosting i switched to a y7 tranny, not by choice but becasue i blew my z6 diff and the y7 was free. i did notice the longer gears, better more controled launches because of the slightly longer 1st gear. some people with sit here till they are blue in the face and say that longer gear=boosting is better or worse but from my personal experience, anyturbo bigger than a 15g on 7lbs or more needs a longer gear.

when i was boosting stock greddy i think 5-7lbs, i did notice a bogg with the y7 tranny, gears were too long and i wasnt making power. the z6 tranny actually felt better with less boost.

[pitchblacktyper]

i love my dx tranny :)

[bigwig]

Y8 tranny. Shorter the gears, the faster the acceleration, the better quarter mile times. Nothing more or less.

[Rexinre]

^^^If you are interested into 1/4 mile racing...

[bigwig]

Honda didnt really gear any of their trannys super aggressively so i cant see why you wouldnt want the shortest gears possible. Most of the time 5th gear is very close to being identicle. So yea, id say stick w/ the Y8 tranny.

[beerbongskickass]

Y8 tranny. Shorter the gears, the faster the acceleration, the better quarter mile times. Nothing more or less.
Exactly...

Honda motors make ALL their power at rpms so you want to stay up there as much ass possible. Longer gears = poo poo... shorter gears = yay!

[transzex]

define one's goals first, then select a tranny option.

[Rexinre]

define one's goals first, then select a tranny option.
I totally agree. I had an EX tranny in my civic and 5th gear cruzing the RPM was up there.

[custom_junky]

i would say EX for autox, and a dx, hf, or cx tranny for high horsepower drag applications.

[bigwig]

I dont understand why anyone wouldnt want the shortest gears possible for their car. Short gears allow for the fastest accelleration possible. Accelleration is a function of speed over time. Fastest accelleration means the most to your car.

Long gears+boost=good is a myth and a half. It makes no sense and is illogical. Put an EX tranny on a car and then put a CX tranny on the car, I will bet the EX will out perform the CX in everyway, shape, and form.

[Rexinre]

I agree with you bigwig, but just cruzing on the highway it gets real annoying at like 70-75MPH. Long loud humming noise. I know my car is a bit slower with the CX tranny in it; I just like it for cruzing for now. I can't wait though until I drop back in the EX transmission with my quaife!

[custom_junky]

ok then put a short geared tranny in a corvette, or viper or another high powered vehicle....there is a reason why the factories put longer geared manual trannies in high powered vehicles. It's to help control the power. i don't care if your the best driver ever created, if you have a shit load of power and a first gear that will only go to 30 MPH, you'll spin the shit outa your tires, and at last deduction, spinning = bad.

granted you can get a short geared tranny to work, but you'll loose to much accelerating through spinning. but to your defense (bigwig) it would take at least 200HP before a tranny becomes an issue with spinning, as long as your a decent driver with a LSD. better yet, if you customize your own tranny and get the gearing down right you can get the best of both worlds start out with a longer gear for first and adjust every gear after that first one for the optimul power band usage. (just a thought)

[bigwig]

You are incorrect. Take a B18b1 engine, put a b16/GSR tranny. run the quarter mile. then do it with the LS tranny.

I will gaurentee you will drop ~.2 seconds off your quarter mile.

You will spin your tires regardless with a FWD vehicle. Facts are facts. On street tires, your tires will spin with any sort of power. You want to get out of 1st and 2nd gear as soon as possible to allow yourself to get traction. This is where short geared trannys add that time in on the quarter mile without a blink of an eye.

Also, your 5th gear will be almost identicle to any other civic. I cant find the gearing ratios right now, but i will and we can compare them and you can see at 80mph on one tranny you may be at 4000rpms and on another 3800 or 4200 or something similar.

[beerbongskickass]

I had an EX tranny in my civic and 5th gear cruzing the RPM was up there.What are you talking about?

70 mph is around 3,000 rpms
80 moh is around 3,500 rpms
90 mph is around 4,000 rpms

That aint shit for rpms. The Y8 gearing is the shortest gearing for us d-series guys, but it's really not that short at all. If you don't have traction in 1st and 2nd gear then get good suspension, better tires, limited slip, 2 stage boost controler, etc...

As I said before honda motors make ALL their power at HIGH rpms so you want to stay up there as much as possible. A CX tranny compared to an EX tranny would fucking suck donkey balls and be slow as shit. Do yourself a favor and get the Y8 tranny.

[custom_junky]

i was talking about HIGH powered engines, a stock b18b1 doesn't make enough to take advantage of the longer gears. again you need at the very LEAST 200 HP (i'm sure this is even enough to make a difference)(this is at wheels, for stating that earlier i am sorry). believe me i understand what you are saying, the shorter the gears that you and your car can control with out over doing the spinning the better. but if you are going for big HP numbers you need a longer geared tranny. i'll garauntee you if you had two cars each with the same everything making 300HP, one with the EX tranny, and one with the DX tranny, the one that has the longer gears (DX) would and should win. but that is again with the HIGH HP numbers ONLY. so while i do agree with you bigwig, i also have to disagree with the fact of higher HP numbers.

as for the 80 MPH and all at roughly the same RPM's, i can tell you from personnal experiance that's not completely acuate. for example i do believe the HF tranny at 80 MPH will allow the engine to run at 3000 RPM range +/- (but the redline on the HF motor is also like 5-6000 RPM's). but the HF is the only tranny i know for sure, the dx, and lx, i don't know at all, never been in a civic with either tranny. only been in mine (EX) and my friends (HF rex).
:hijacked:

Ok i'm done hijacking, so someone that can relate to Egizzle6's question please give more information.

[Rexinre]

What are you talking about?

70 mph is around 3,000 rpms
80 moh is around 3,500 rpms
90 mph is around 4,000 rpms

That was definately not my tranny, where did you get those #s from?

[custom_junky]

What are you talking about?

70 mph is around 3,000 rpms
80 moh is around 3,500 rpms
90 mph is around 4,000 rpms

That aint shit for rpms. The Y8 gearing is the shortest gearing for us d-series guys, but it's really not that short at all. If you don't have traction in 1st and 2nd gear then get good suspension, better tires, limited slip, 2 stage boost controler, etc...

As I said before honda motors make ALL their power at HIGH rpms so you want to stay up there as much as possible. A CX tranny compared to an EX tranny would fucking suck donkey balls and be slow as shit. Do yourself a favor and get the Y8 tranny.wow, i would love to have that tranny, shit i'm sittin at 4000 RPM when doing 80. will the Y8 bolt up the a D17?

[pitchblacktyper]

^^^ no joke, my dx is right at 3500 at 70!! shorter gears equal wheel spin though, have to consider that. like i said dx tranny (with ex final drivehttp://www.d-series.org/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif) thats my setup and i love it :haha:

[bigwig]

Your thinking is flawed though. To look at big horse power in hondas, its easiest to look at the B-series, so lets do so.

Have you ever seen a 350whp+ car that sees lots of track time with the LS tranny(longest of the B-series)? I know that the LS tranny is one of the first thing turbo LS guys are looking to get rid of for the likes of a GSR/B16/ITR. Long gears keep you in boost longer. Okay, now what does that exactly mean? You are at a higher power for a longer period of time, but it also takes a longer period of time to get to that power. You want to be accellerating as fast as possible. Nothing more or less. Short gearing means faster accelleration. The reason a Chevy or something of the sorts may use longer gearing because it makes max power at 2500rpm and redlines at 5500rpms. That's its sweet spot. Hondas are all upper range power. You want to get there as soon as possible. Thus the want for short gearing.

One last thing, your example is flawed. Comparing 1 engine with one transmission to another engine with another transmission simply will not work. You have engine X and you compare it to transmission 'a' and transmission 'b'. Im saying A and B will be both very similar in 5th gear.

[Jaker]

custom junky,

You take whatever tranny you want with really tall 1st and 2nd gears and you're imaginary 400 whp FWD, and I'll take my 400 whp (imaginary) FWD Civic with really short gears, and Race Logic traction control, and lets race.

[custom_junky]

custom junky,

You take whatever tranny you want with really tall 1st and 2nd gears and you're imaginary 400 whp FWD, and I'll take my 400 whp (imaginary) FWD Civic with really short gears, and Race Logic traction control, and lets race.
honestly i would take your offer, unfortunetly i don't have the money for that, but if you know someone with the same setup and different trannies with high horsepower, i'll take your offer, if for nothing else, for fun. sounds like a good experiment, if someone has the time and money to do so.

[pitchblacktyper]

traction control is a pussy's second clutch.. http://www.d-series.org/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif

[Rexinre]

Ok, here is the page I was looking at a while back. Here is what I was talking about with cruzing at around 80 or so.

As you can see BEER, there is a difference. Now I ask you again where you got your info from?

RPM vs. MPH of various 5th gears
5th gear-----FD------45------60------80------100---
0.702-------4.058---1898---2530---3373---4217--
0.702-------4.250---1988---2650---3533---4417--
0.750-------4.250---2123---2831---3775---4718--
0.771-------4.250---2183---2910---3880---4850--
0.878-------4.250---2486---3314---4419---5523--

Multiply RPM's by 1.135 if using 20" slicks
Multiply RPM's by 1.032 if using 22" slicks

I got this info off of Mista Bones (tranzex) web site
http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/tranny.html

[beerbongskickass]

That was definately not my tranny, where did you get those #s from?That was from me driving on the freeway in my Y8 tranny. The numbers were the same in both the Z6 tranny's I had in my car also. I said "about" that rpm so it's not dead on, but very close (within 100 rpms). My tranny's have stock gearing also. The the 5th gear in the HB/del sol tranny's are different than the 2dr/4dr so the rpms will be about 200 higher or so on the freeway.

Use these sites and type in the numbers yourself if you don't believe me. It says with my gearing at 70 mph I should be at 3079 rpms (.702 5th gear) and for the HB/del sol 3290 rpms (.750 5th gear)

http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/tranny.html

http://www.autocrossing.com/cgi-bin/gearcalc.cgi

Oh and custom junky when I build my motor I am going to be shooting for 300-400hp on pump gas, 350 ish on pump gas would be nice. I wouldn't even think about putting a DX or CX tranny in my car because it would make my car slower. I have good suspension, good tires, limited slip, and I am going to be running around 10-12 psi off the wastegate, then have my boost controller set to like 20 psi and when I hit 3rd gear at the flick of a switch I will have 20 psi. I might also hook my boost controller up to the horn so when it's pushed in it will be 10-12 psi and then when I let go 20 psi. This is basically for racing purposes. I don't care what tranny you have, when your making that much horsepower your not going to hook up in 1st or probably even 2nd gear at full boost.

[beerbongskickass]

Ok, here is the page I was looking at a while back. Here is what I was talking about with cruzing at around 80 or so.

As you can see BEER, there is a difference. Now I ask you again where you got your info from?

RPM vs. MPH of various 5th gears
5th gear-----FD------45------60------80------100---
0.702-------4.058---1898---2530---3373---4217--
0.702-------4.250---1988---2650---3533---4417--
0.750-------4.250---2123---2831---3775---4718--
0.771-------4.250---2183---2910---3880---4850--
0.878-------4.250---2486---3314---4419---5523--

Multiply RPM's by 1.135 if using 20" slicks
Multiply RPM's by 1.032 if using 22" slicks

I got this info off of Mista Bones (tranzex) web site
http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/tranny.htmlI highlighted the gearing for my car. This is the stock gearing for the Z6/Y8 tranny's (HB/del sol will be about 200 rpms higher). I just used my stock tires size (22.8 ish). The numbers will very a little bit with tires size. Looks like I was pretty close... only 33 rpms off...

[Rexinre]

You must have the 4 door version?

The EX tranny I have .750 5th gear and FD of 4.250 in my garage which puts 70 at 3290

The CX tranny I have in my car has .702 5th gear and FD of 3.250 which puts 70 at 2355

Simple math puts the difference at 935rpms to me that is a big difference in cruzing.
:hijacked:

[beerbongskickass]

Okay let's get back on topic then. I don't care if your turbo, N/A, supercharged, or nitrous... I don't care if your making 100hp, 200hp, 300hp, or 400hp... I don't care if you drag race, auto x, or daily drive your car... Shorter gearing is going to make you accelerate faster. Hondas make ALL their power at HIGH rpms so you want to stay up there as much as possible. If you have traction problems get better tires, better suspension, limited slip, 2 stage boost controller, etc...

Y8 tranny > every other d-series tranny

[Rexinre]

I can agree with that.



:tool:

[ssl2k]

beerbong already covered wheel spin.

1) better tires
2) LSD
3) better suspsension
4) dual stage boost controller

what the hell is the point of having 300hp to the wheels wiht a FWD car on street tires anyawys? you'll can roast them through 4th.

90% of all of your trannys are open diff so drop the LSD unit in there and that'll give you more traction for the hole shot. put some better springs out back and hell.. you can always get better slicks.

fact is that like beerbong says, honda motors like high end rpms....keep the turbos up there in that high end rpm where THEY MAKE POWER.



btw, rexinre- why not swap the gearing over to a 40mm case and then drop the Lsd unit in...lots of work, but if you want LSD..

nathan

[Rexinre]

btw, rexinre- why not swap the gearing over to a 40mm case and then drop the Lsd unit in...lots of work, but if you want LSD..

nathan
Its a good idea, I have an EX tranny in my garage with a quaife LSD. What I would like to do is to swap the 5th gear from my CX tranny to my EX tranny. I just don't want to fuck anything up!

[transzex]

I must restate, WHAT ARE THE GOALS???????????????

Beerbong covered just about everything............

But lets stir the pot a bit..........ready???????

Rant ON!!!!!!!!

Why would anyone use a 5g DX 1-2, ZC 3-5 with a DX 4.058 FD and run 20" road racing slicks????????

Most would cringe at the 1-2 gear/rpm drop. But since when did you ever do a road racing restart in first gear??????

2 things...........

1) 88-00 trannys, the VSS is set for 22.7 diameter tires

2) play with this link for gearing.........

http://nonsense.netfirms.com/speed.html

Steve/Nonsense did the programing to the math/formula/chart I've been using for 20+ years.

Gale Banks and John Lingenfelter (RIP!) approved!

I got to meet John after the C/D 40th Vette went to press. I told him the gearing changes I would make to get the SB2 motor 427 CID about 20-25 MORE top speed.
His comment was car is already done and inked, but loved my idea. He asked where did I learn this, simple article about Gale Banks going for 200 mph in a 83-84 TA.

The next question was a big one..........

"Why you playing with Hondas?"

"Because they are the underdog and with proper tuning AND gearing can be made respectable"......"still get 35+ mpg".........

I have thought out tranny gearing in my head and made spilt judgements on which 3-4-5 gearing to run at which track. It is my "knack" that I cannot explain.

When I ask what it your goal/application/desired plan. I truelly mean it.

RANT OFF!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the rambling, but I am THAT GOOD.

Damnit, should have been a "train driver" (inside joke!)

[Rexinre]

:lol: So uhhhh? What are you saying tranzex ?:lol:

:bravo:

[90zcrx]

:lol: So uhhhh? What are you saying tranzex ?:lol:

:bravo:

Exactly what I was thinking... ???

[custom_junky]

From what I got, basically have the 1-2 gears as longer gears for starting, and shorter 3-4-5 gears for the sake of acceleration, which is what i said earlier (transzex, if i misinterpreted you, i apologize.)


granted you can get a short geared tranny to work, but you'll loose to much accelerating through spinning. but to your defense (bigwig) it would take at least 200HP before a tranny becomes an issue with spinning, as long as your a decent driver with a LSD. better yet, if you customize your own tranny and get the gearing down right you can get the best of both worlds start out with a longer gear for first and adjust every gear after that first one for the optimul power band usage. (just a thought)but like transzex said as well answer the question of what you are going to use the tranny for and what kind of application and then decide what you would like to have for gearing ratio's

[gaowee]

hmm..if your 1st gear is too short..drop the cluth in 2nd gear...gosh..my rx7 turbo make so much power 1st gear got me about 5 feet of burnout..thats droping it at 3k so i end up droping it on 2nd gear at 5k and it was fast..didnt have to shift for a while..seem like a long 1st gear but 3-4-5 went by in a flash..shortest gear had its upand down..same as taller gear..but if your not making that much power..i say around 250-300wrhp..get shortgear..hehe..

[D16A6T]

How would having the frankenstein b16/Gsr tranny not be the ideal tranny? The longer gears would not spin as much as the shorter gears would, given 1st and 2nd were the longer gears. Then through the rest of the gears, were spin is not a big problem, the shorter gears would give the acceleration. But given most of us are broke, the y8 would be the better tranny. With a longer geared tranny after you are through the first two gears the shorter geared tranny would out accelerate the longered geared tranny (given the cars have identical Horsepower and drivetrains). The longer gears make it harder to keep up the rpms, yes even in drag racing, so the shorter gears would be the best option.

[gaowee]

:) great d16a6t

[kommon_sense]

Keep in mind that if you are having a problem with wheelspin on the launch that you can use a lightweight flywheel to help this...

Also one of the advantages of shorter gears like the EX is that the shorter gears do a better job of keeping you in your powerband when shifting near redline.